Best vintage frame for non-original retro/modern build...?

[wafter]

Hypothetically speaking of course; most certainly for the time being...

The brief is to build up a decent-quality vintage lugged steel frameset with a modern groupset (thinking the ubiquitous 105) and rims (something shallowish and ally).. possibly with a non-standard refinish if the frame is tatty.

I'm thinking mid-range (Reynolds 501 / 531) to get something decent quality that doesn't otherwise have a lot of collectable or monetary value; thus making it morally viable to mod.

I'm also thinking as late as possible (later '80s / early '90s) and six-speed minimum to minimise compatability issues (so far looking at stuff from the '80s onwards I'm aware of differences in rear axle spacing, brake caliper mounting position and type, wheel size..).

So.. I'd welcome any suggestions as to the sort of models I should be looking for - so far Raleigh and Dawes stuff has caught my eye but my knowledge pretty much stops there. Ta

 

[midlife]

Do you want mudguards and that sort of thing or more Dynatech type race stuff..

 

[raleighnut]

Something like this,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raleigh-...592497?hash=item2643b37871:g:LUQAAOSwq4tfPOTS

 

[carpenter]

I'd be looking for:
Raleigh Competition (Carlton build) lovely frame,
Carlton (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RETRO-CA...110352?hash=item421e97dc50:g:9bcAAOSwUS5fOTTZ - could turn out very nice, but a bit pricey?)
Mercian (olympic?)
Peugeot (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-...110727?hash=item342e7afa07:g:ByAAAOSwjPtfNs8V - only a few hours left, but could be delightful)

 

[avecReynolds531]

If mudguards aren't important, then something like this Columbus SLX frame (with Campagnolo drop outs) may be of interest: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steve-Thornhill-Road-Bike-Frame-Columbus-SLX-/274398998703

It won't fit me unfortunately - would have it in a minute - most probably a Mike Kowal/ Autostrada built frame & should ride beautifully.

The later Ribble steel frames were also built by Mike Kowal/ Autostrada and well worth seeking out - this one in Reynolds 653: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RIBBLE-S...589208?hash=item342d141118:g:26oAAOSw~-RfHWvX

and this lovely 653 Record: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original...854361?hash=item36689561d9:g:69UAAOSwDHxfJzDO

 

[rogerzilla]

Get something with 130mm rear spacing and, ideally, STI cable guides on the head tube. The latter aren't essential but they prevent paint rub. A 1 1/8" threadless fork is possible from the 90s onwards and is worth having for stiffness and a slight weight reduction. I'm not sure if 531 was ever produced with oversize head tubes.

653 is a bit meh and 753 chainstays are often rotted out by now.

 

[wafter]

Thanks guys - some lovely hardware posted so far

Do you want mudguards and that sort of thing or more Dynatech type race stuff..

I guess I'd be looking at a more race-oriented bike as I have the CdF for touring-type duties and there would be no point duplicating (in a mostly inferior way) its spec with another bike. Plus it would obviously have rim brakes and the shorter reach afforded by a lack of mudguards should aid stopping power / make it more modern-caliper friendly (assuming they fit on the mounts of course!).

Is the Dyntech stuff all bonded (and possibly not steel)? I'm really not into that sort of stuff; just want a nice quality brazed / lugged steel frame that looks nice and will last forever

Get something with 130mm rear spacing and, ideally, STI cable guides on the head tube. The latter aren't essential but they prevent paint rub. A 1 1/8" threadless fork is possible from the 90s onwards and is worth having for stiffness and a slight weight reduction. I'm not sure if 531 was ever produced with oversize head tubes.

653 is a bit meh and 753 chainstays are often rotted out by now.

Indeed - although given the timing of the introduction of STIs and demise of mainstream steel it seems like there's very little overlap between the two... most steel frames I've seen have been 5sp (120mm spacing) or 6-7sp (126mm spacing). 8sp (also 126mm) seems to crop up at the changeover point between steel and ally, while 9sp (130mm) really only seems to be found on ally road bikes. Likewise STIs only seem to be a thing on 8sp and above groupsets.

Didn't consider the fork either, but tbh I'd be happy sticking with a 1" threaded setup I think; sounds like aiming for a threadless headset would narrow down my chances even further.

Tbh I'd be happy with 501 or 531; what's the problem with 653, just out of interest?

 

[midlife]

The world is your oyster .

I only mentioned Dynatech as I’m taking some white RX100 stuff off one at the moment.

Any reputable builder will do . If you see something and don’t recognise the name classiclightweights website has a list of frame builders. If you find something pit it on here and pound to a penny someone will know what it is .

 

[rogerzilla]

126mm can be reset to 130mm easily but a modicum of skill is required. 120mm to 130mm is worse because the dropouts really need to be made parallel again afterwards - it's a big change.

Speaking from personal experience, an Eddy Merckx frame from the early 90s would be ideal. They have STI cable guides and my Strada OS is the best road racing bike I've ever ridden. Lugged and brazed and a great brand.

This one's way nicer than my tatty yellow one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283985050669

 

[avecReynolds531]

what's the problem with 653, just out of interest?

I'm a little bit confused about that - heard a lot of good reports of 653? It could be that the thinner drawn main triangle was too flexible for more powerful cyclists - not a problem for me. This thread has some interesting info: https://forums.roadbikereview.com/retro-classic/reynolds-653-tubing-combi-set-753-lite-224502.html

This one's way nicer than my tatty yellow one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283985050669

That's a beautiful bike - gorgeous Columbus Brain OS is a lovely tubeset - for me, it'd have to be SL for the comfort in a smaller frame.

edit:

I guess I'd be looking at a more race-oriented bike

It maybe worth the consideration of frame size, your weight, tube wall thickness and the balance of having a frame that's somewhere between being too flexible (I've known a 531 frame to cause the front derailleur to rub), and one that sends you to a chiropracter (I've also known an OS steel frame that can be well harsh).

 

[wafter]

The world is your oyster .

I only mentioned Dynatech as I’m taking some white RX100 stuff off one at the moment.

Any reputable builder will do . If you see something and don’t recognise the name classiclightweights website has a list of frame builders. If you find something pit it on here and pound to a penny someone will know what it is .

Well, if I had the money and storage space it might be... but no harm in getting my ducks lined up for a more appropriate time

I appreciate what you're saying about framebuilders; I'm happy to keep an open mind but also have a bit of a nostalgic soft spot for Raleigh stuff so would be very happy with one of their offerings.. plus probably a bit more common so arguably a more justifiable donor for a non-standard resto.

I'm very taken by this build; very much along the lines of what I was planning - even down to the Aviator Grey paint which I'd considered too. I think the guy's done a fantastically period-sympathetic resto with the shiney Campag groupset, although I'd probably just stick to modern 105 as I like Shimano and it's easily avialable (or will be once the industry has got over the 'rona crisis).

126mm can be reset to 130mm easily but a modicum of skill is required. 120mm to 130mm is worse because the dropouts really need to be made parallel again afterwards - it's a big change.

Speaking from personal experience, an Eddy Merckx frame from the early 90s would be ideal. They have STI cable guides and my Strada OS is the best road racing bike I've ever ridden. Lugged and brazed and a great brand.

This one's way nicer than my tatty yellow one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283985050669

Thanks - that was my thinking; aim for 6sp as it's 126mm so requires less "adjustment"; although I'd still want the dropouts checked and set for parallelism.

Ta for the tip on Merckx frames - I'm aware they exist but know nowt about them... will keep an eye out.

The example in the link looks really nice; thankfully it's far too big for me!

I'm a little bit confused about that - heard a lot of good reports of 653? It could be that the thinner drawn main triangle was too flexible for more powerful cyclists - not a problem for me. This thread has some interesting info: https://forums.roadbikereview.com/retro-classic/reynolds-653-tubing-combi-set-753-lite-224502.html


That's a beautiful bike - gorgeous Columbus Brain OS is a lovely tubeset - for me, it'd have to be SL for the comfort in a smaller frame.

edit:

It maybe worth the consideration of frame size, your weight, tube wall thickness and the balance of having a frame that's somewhere between being too flexible (I've known a 531 frame to cause the front derailleur to rub), and one that sends you to a chiropracter (I've also known an OS steel frame that can be well harsh).

Thanks - tbh I take a mid-range frame and am neither particularly heavy nor powerful, so 531 would probably be fine. As long as I know it's decent quality I'm not too hung up on tubing spec as I think it generally offers marginal gains and as you suggest it's a two way street. To be fair my gas pipe Raleigh rides nicely enough, although that does have 32mm tyres with a bit of tread on them which has to help.

 

[avsd]

Have a look at this one - Thorn Audax Mk3 R Frame - Green I just finishing a Di2 build with 105 chainset. Need long reach brakes but they are easy got.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

If you want something a little sportier than a laid-back 531 tourer, you could do worse than source a closer-clearance Dawes frame made of Reynolds tubing from the late 80's/early 90's.
I've got an '87-ish Jaguar which is 531 butted main tubes, and a tatty looking '91-ish Response donor made of plain gauge 500 tubing but appears to have identical sporty geometry. Neither was expensive, the 531 bike cost me £40 and the scruffy 500 model was only £19 IIRC. Both were built as 12 speeders. 28mm tyres fit easily but 32mm are very tight on the back and I wouldn't recommend going that large as a slightly out of true wheel could jam in the stays..
Choice really boils down to availability and weight tolerance. A 531 frame will weigh maybe half a pound less than a 501 job, and a pound less than a 500 plain gauge tubeset.
Raleigh frames will obviously be the most plentiful, followed by Dawes then maybe the likes of Falcon and Claud Butler. i have certain misgivings about using a vintage small volume custom frame if modern components are going to be fitted.
If you're going to refinish the paint then it makes sense to source something that's relatively common and has limited collector appeal. Plenty of nice steel out there.

 

[rogerzilla]

Just to add, bike sizing is different for a horizontal top tube frame and you may need a frame that looks large by modern standards to get the bars at a comfortable height. I'm only 5'10" but, to maintain a comfortable drop to the bars of about 4 inches, I need a 23" frame with the stem right up at the "min insert" mark. Most quill stems have a pretty small range of adjustment, and extra-tall ones like a Nitto Technomic look silly on a race bike.

In the 70s, a mere fistful of seatpost was pretty normal. This means standover height is compromised but that isn't really a concern on a road bike. You can see why MTBs adopted the sloping top tube early on, with the need for quick dismounts when it all gets too gnarly!

 

[Gunk]

Interestingly I’m just considering doing a very similar project. I’ve got a complete Campag Centaur 10 speed group set, BB and a set of Chorus hubs which I’ve had for about 10 years in a box in the garage.

I’m thinking of using a 531c frame from the 1980’s and cold setting the rear if needed, which I’ve done before. My idea is to build up a retro-mod Raleigh Panasonic replica.

My other thought was to buy a used carbon frame set (or complete bike) and build up a modern Raleigh Banana replica with Campagnolo 10 speed running gear.