Best way to deal with bad driving?

[KnackeredBike]

The problem with being a shouty cyclist is that the drivers are in a big metal weapon so you don't really want to aggravate them further. Not that I've never shouted at them though.

Perhaps true, my feeling is that most drivers who do something idiotic do it because they think they can run away and the cyclist can't catch them. Thus when you catch up you effectively have them cornered and they will be cowed rather than seeking more confrontation.

I even had one boy racer lad who studiously ignored me for a minute until he had to acknowledge that he could hear someone banging on his window and shouting.

As @mjr said you also immediately have the advantage that they are flabby and sitting in a low seat and you likely rather fit and standing.

 

[Debade]

The cameras thing would work sometimes. The rest is just top victim-blaming: there is essentially nothing you can wear and no manner of riding which will force others to behave competently.

I agree with the shouting. Sometimes I gesticulate at them. No swearing and usually with some idea of an escape route if it's another road rager who'll turn the car around or stop and jump out.

The safest approach is definitely more cyclists. Motorists pay much more attention when they expect a cyclist on every corner/block. I have been amazed how courteous motorists are in areas that have many cyclists. The best but perhaps most time consuming approach to improve our safety is to encourage more cyclists.

In the meantime, I do not see my initial post as victim blaming. The motorist is definitely responsible for their actions. But, the OP asked for tips to be more noticeable. That was the purpose of the response.

As an aside, I would not suggest too aggressive of approach to motorists in the States, if you happen to ride here. It would not be unusual for a person to have a fire arm with them. And threatening the motorist , may cause a reaction that even a bright yellow cycling shirt would not appreciate.

 

[mjr]

Think about where it happened and if there is anything you can do in the future, with regards to road positioning, to prevent it.

More victim-blaming. Cycle too close to the kerb and some nutter will probably try to squeeze past in lane - cycle further out and some nutter will probably resent it and close-pass/cut-in to encourage you into the gutter. Probably the only position that would force wide overtakes is cycling along with a proximity-activated weapon aimed to the rear and slightly right!

 

[mjr]

In the meantime, I do not see my initial post as victim blaming. The motorist is definitely responsible for their actions. But, the OP asked for tips to be more noticeable.

I'm not seeing that in the OP.

As an aside, I would not suggest too aggressive of approach to motorists in the States, if you happen to ride here. It would not be unusual for a person to have a fire arm with them. And threatening the motorist , may cause a reaction that even a bright yellow cycling shirt would not appreciate.

Oh sure, I don't threaten them, even in the UK. Just shout my surprise and maybe helpful tips on how they could improve their driving by boiling their head or worrying less about their tiny penis or maybe more useful advice if I'm not too rattled and always have one brain cell thinking about an escape route that motorists cannot follow. It sucks that it's like that in some places, though. Thankfully rare these days in Norfolk, Cambridgeshire or London, in my experience.

 

[Drago]

I agree with the shouting. Sometimes I gesticulate at them. No swearing and usually with some idea of an escape route if it's another road rager who'll turn the car around or stop and jump out.

I was out driving my Hummer when a cyclist started gesticulating and swearing at me...

 

[Profpointy]

More victim-blaming. Cycle too close to the kerb and some nutter will probably try to squeeze past in lane - cycle further out and some nutter will probably resent it and close-pass/cut-in to encourage you into the gutter. Probably the only position that would force wide overtakes is cycling along with a proximity-activated weapon aimed to the rear and slightly right!

It's not really victim blaming to recommend from hard won experience, that you are safer and get fewer close passes if you cycle a metre from the kerb. It does annoy some motorists, and sometimes does provoke agression, but I reckon still best on balance. Some drivers are crap and / or nasty, but every little thing you yourself can do is worth considering, no?

 

[mjr]

I was out driving my Hummer when a cyclist started gesticulating and swearing at me...

View attachment 362858

Don't make him angry. You wouldn't like Californian drivers when they're angry.

 

[mjr]

It's not really victim blaming to recommend from hard won experience, that you are safer and get fewer close passes if you cycle a metre from the kerb. It does annoy some motorists, and sometimes does provoke agression, but I reckon still best on balance. Some drivers are crap and / or nasty, but every little thing you yourself can do is worth considering, no?

This isn't worth considering. Like I wrote, no matter what position you cycle in, bad drivers are gonna drive badly. I wouldn't normally cycle as close as a metre from the kerb unless that's secondary position and I consider it safe to use it.

It's also not a way to deal with bad drivers and by making it your only point when asked how to deal with bad drivers, it implies that the bad driving is partly the cyclist's fault, with any claims to the contrary being rather like those people who start "I'm not a racist but..."

 

[jefmcg]

worrying less about their tiny penis

It wasn't a random abuse. I believe that men who drive fast and dangerously, especially with friends male or female in the car, often do so out of (a possibly) subconscious belief that it is a masculine thing to do, asserts their manhood in the eyes of others. Letting them know that it doesn't make strangers think that he is a "big" man and humiliates them in front of the friends might make them choose more sociably acceptable ways to express their masculinity. I am not alone in this belief.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgV9Oa6z5wY


(I have found the inverse relationship between car size/power and penis size to be anecdotally true.)

 

[Profpointy]

This isn't worth considering. Like I wrote, no matter what position you cycle in, bad drivers are gonna drive badly. I wouldn't normally cycle as close as a metre from the kerb unless that's secondary position and I consider it safe to use it.

It's also not a way to deal with bad drivers and by making it your only point when asked how to deal with bad drivers, it implies that the bad driving is partly the cyclist's fault, with any claims to the contrary being rather like those people who start "I'm not a racist but..."

Isn't that bit silly? You seem to be saying we shouldn't make suggestions that might help a cyclist influence (possibly bad) drivers' behavious as it's "victim blaming".

Granted crassly put, such advice it could be that, but you seem to be decrying any advice altogether.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

More victim-blaming. Cycle too close to the kerb and some nutter will probably try to squeeze past in lane - cycle further out and some nutter will probably resent it and close-pass/cut-in to encourage you into the gutter. Probably the only position that would force wide overtakes is cycling along with a proximity-activated weapon aimed to the rear and slightly right!

I disagree. Encouraging reflection, and suggesting an assertive defensive posture is sound advice, in the circumstances. Well done @steveindenmark

Equally I agree that no matter what I do, some twunt will find a way to punish me, or unconsciously endanger my well-being.

So in answer to the OP...

Work through your feelings and let it go. Driving standards are sh1te in this country, we have to live with it as the dominant motor-centric culture doesn't want to address this issue. Over time it may change/improve.

(And yes, as a commuter I used a rearward and forward facing camera - so my nearest and dearest would have evidence if the worst happened.)

 

[mjr]

Isn't that bit silly? You seem to be saying we shouldn't make suggestions that might help a cyclist influence (possibly bad) drivers' behavious as it's "victim blaming".

Granted crassly put, such advice it could be that, but you seem to be decrying any advice altogether.

No, I'm saying concentrate the advice on the question asked, which is how to deal with bad driving.

There seems no reason to think that @Welsh wheels is riding badly in any way. Advice on riding position - advice contrary to Cyclecraft, no less! - seems like an unhelpful distraction unless you believe that the OP's bad riding causes bad driving somehow.

I notice you wrote "fewer incidents" not no incidents. What do you do about them? Blame yourself? Or do you actually try to be part of the solution and report the incompetent motorists (assuming you sometimes get the index, unlike the example in the OP) so we might get them off the roads before they hurt someone?

 

[Profpointy]

No, I'm saying concentrate the advice on the question asked, which is how to deal with bad driving.

There seems no reason to think that @Welsh wheels is riding badly in any way. Advice on riding position - advice contrary to Cyclecraft, no less! - seems like an unhelpful distraction unless you believe that the OP's bad riding causes bad driving somehow.

I notice you wrote "fewer incidents" not no incidents. What do you do about them? Blame yourself? Or do you actually try to be part of the solution and report the incompetent motorists (assuming you sometimes get the index, unlike the example in the OP) so we might get them off the roads before they hurt someone?

you're arguing for the sake of it. Whatever....

 

[mjr]

you're arguing for the sake of it. Whatever....

Nope - just trying to extract some suggestions of how to deal with bad driving from you, but I guess you've got none.

 

[Profpointy]

Nope - just trying to extract some suggestions of how to deal with bad driving from you, but I guess you've got none.

Well apart from my suggestion on road positioning. I found it help me control or at least influence drivers' behaviour. For some reason you don't consider that an acceptable contribution and would rather snipe instead.