Better design of HGVs is key to improving safety for cyclists

[Andy in Germany]

I've been a HGV class 1 driver for most of my working life..... cyclists consistently rode on the inside of my trailer when i'm stationary at traffic lights or anywhere where i have to stop in traffic. They've even rode along my nearside when i'm indicating left.
I've had them riding up my inside where there is so little room between my truck and the curb, these cyclists have one foot on the curb to get by.
The problem with a lot of cyclists, is that they have this absolute aversion to having to stop, they want to keep moving at all costs. These costs are often their life.

I've not cycled in the UK for many years but I've [almost] never had a problem with an HGV driver here. In some ways I'm happier having a truck behind me than a car because I can be pretty sure the driver knows what he's doing.

I also think HGV's have a lot more mirrors here than in the UK. From what I can see there are far fewer blind spots.

On the other hand I have some trouble with car drivers because I try and stop somewhere I can see a mirror when behind an HGV, on the basis that if I can see a mirror, then the driver at least has a chance of seeing me. Car drivers don't seem to appreciate this and try to tell me to move forwards, ie, right into the blind spot.

 

[Markymark]

I don't live in 'that there lunnon', nor would I want to.

But I've seen fellow cyclist filter on the left side of lorries indicating a left turn at lights. Even without a barrier on the pavement this is asking for trouble.

Yes I've also seen lorry drivers make stupid/dangerous manoeuvres, but too many cyclists put themselves into danger.

Popped in for the first time in a few months to see what's going on and it's sad to see there's still people posting this shite.

I never filter up the inside of a lorry. I rarely see people do. I cycle a lot mpore in London than you do. Yet we often find ourselves on the left of a slow moving or stationary lorry. Care to guess why that might be? I'll give you a clue...it's not magic, but crappy driving from lorry drivers.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

The problem there is that you end up with cyclists having to be almost as well qualified as car drivers with a test before you can use a bike, which makes cycling impossible for many people who need it: my kids for one.

Sorry I disagree, your kids I presume you go out with them & you either tell them prior to getting into an unsafe position why not to do it, or you scream at them as they do it to stop them doing it, okay maybe not scream but you know what I mean

Some of my mentally disabled clients can't drive for various reasons, but they are still mobile because they can ride a bike along the many cycleways locally. If the local government had taken the attitude that we just have to train cyclists, they would have lost their mobility and independence.

Nobody is on about, well i'm not on about official training, but if you have people who due to mental disabilities are putting themselves & potentially others in danger, are they in the right place?

 

[Smudge]

I've not cycled in the UK for many years but I've never had a problem with an HGV driver here. In some ways I'm happier having a truck behind me than a car because I can be pretty sure the driver knows what he's doing.

I also think HGV's have a lot more mirrors here than in the UK. From what I can see there are far fewer blind spots.

On the other hand I have some trouble with car drivers because I try and stop somewhere I can see a mirror when behind an HGV, on the basis that if I can see a mirror, then the driver at least has a chance of seeing me. Car drivers don't seem to appreciate this and try to tell me to move forwards, ie, right into the blind spot.

For many years now here in the UK, trucks have had wide angle mirrors that are seperate from the usual reverse view door mirrors. They also have a downward facing mirror at the top of the passenger door.
The only areas a truck driver cannot see is directly behind the rear of the truck for a few feet and at the front within a couple of feet of the front grill.
But truck drivers cannot be looking in ALL their mirrors, ALL of the time, they also have to look at whats happening in front.... Its often at these times where a cyclist will put themselves in danger. This is why they want cameras and sensors, so in effect the cyclist is absolved of responsibility and its down to the driver to see them, irrespective of the fact the cyclist should not be there in the first place.

 

[Brandane]

Not hiring brain donors on minimum wage to drive mobile tower blocks is key to improving safety for cyclists.

Nice bit of generalisation there Mr Drago!
I once was an HGV driver but haven't touched one for almost 2 years now and can't say I miss driving for a living (although I still do enjoy driving as long as it is on MY terms). It is generally a thankless task. IMHO that's down to the stupidly long hours that drivers can be expected to work (legally), the congestion on our roads, low pay, some jobs involve getting your hands very dirty, being away from home sleeping in a tin can on some dodgy industrial estate, sleeping with one eye open waiting for someone to slash your trailer curtains to see what they can help themselves to, etc. etc..

So, yes, in general it's not going to attract the highest calibre of person, but you'd be surprised. I've met an ex airline pilot who found himself unable to fly due to failing the high medical standards required, and also a few retired plod. Some of the best drivers I've met though, are those who might not be the sharpest tool in the box; but what they do have is great awareness of the dangers involved in driving large vehicles. I would say experience counts for a lot more than brains, but when you see an HGV how do you know if it's being driven by a 30 year veteran, or someone who passed their HGV test yesterday?
My advice would be to assume the latter and give them a wide berth.

 

[Brandane]

For many years now here in the UK, trucks have had wide angle mirrors that are seperate from the usual reverse view door mirrors. They also have a downward facing mirror at the top of the passenger door.
The only areas a truck driver cannot see is directly behind the rear of the truck for a few feet and at the front within a couple of feet of the front grill.
But truck drivers cannot be looking in ALL their mirrors, ALL of the time, they also have to look at whats happening in front.... Its often at these times where a cyclist will put themselves in danger. This is why they want cameras and sensors, so in effect the cyclist is absolved of responsibility and its down to the driver to see them, irrespective of the fact the cyclist should not be there in the first place.

Oooft; you've done it now. How long before someone rolls out the well used YouTube clip of the old Foden and trailer to show the blind spots around an artic? Blind spots based on the assumption that mirrors are badly adjusted, the driver has his eyes at stomach height, and can't move his head.

Edit to add: If anyone hasn't already seen the annoying, scaremongering, nonsense; here it is in a similar thread.

 

[mjr]

Sorry I disagree, your kids I presume you go out with them & you either tell them prior to getting into an unsafe position why not to do it, or you scream at them as they do it to stop them doing it, okay maybe not scream but you know what I mean

It seems rather depressing if children are expected to be near enough for parents to scream at all the time these days partly because we won't accept that better road and vehicle design is needed. I used to ride to school alone, partly on cycleways, partly on quiet roads. I guess that's no longer acceptable.

 

[mjr]

My only comment is WTF is he driving/riding on the pavement

A DHL cargo bike, from the looks of it. DHL vans drive along pavements, so why would it be surprising if DHL bikes ride on them?

 

[classic33]

My only comment is WTF is he driving/riding on the pavement

Possible cycle path. Picture wasn't taken in the UK.

 

[Mugshot]

This thread gets an airing every now and again and each time the truckers/ex-truckers here will tell us why it's impossible to put an extra person in a cab when the vehicle is within an urban environment, why they can't change the design of a vehicle, why cameras wont work, why mirrors don't work, why it's not the drivers fault, why it is the cyclists fault, why they can't have hubs outside city limits and use smaller delivery vehicles and so on and so forth. It's almost enough to make you miss Glenn Forger, he used to love these threads.

 

[classic33]

I've not cycled in the UK for many years but I've never had a problem with an HGV driver here. In some ways I'm happier having a truck behind me than a car because I can be pretty sure the driver knows what he's doing.

I also think HGV's have a lot more mirrors here than in the UK. From what I can see there are far fewer blind spots.

On the other hand I have some trouble with car drivers because I try and stop somewhere I can see a mirror when behind an HGV, on the basis that if I can see a mirror, then the driver at least has a chance of seeing me. Car drivers don't seem to appreciate this and try to tell me to move forwards, ie, right into the blind spot.

One thing I've got in the habit of doing when behind a lorry is moving out to the right-hand side, every so often, just to remind the driver I'm there and watching what each of us are doing.

 

[Andy in Germany]

One thing I've got in the habit of doing when behind a lorry is moving out to the right-hand side, every so often, just to remind the driver I'm there and watching what each of us are doing.

(Having done some Brief mental gymnastics) Yes, that's what I tend to do. I don't think some drivers are aware of why I'm doing it though, so they are sitting there getting upset because the weirdo hippy on the bike is drifting into the middle of the road...

 

[Brandane]

This thread gets an airing every now and again and each time the truckers/ex-truckers here will tell us why it's impossible to put an extra person in a cab when the vehicle is within an urban environment, why they can't change the design of a vehicle, why cameras wont work, why mirrors don't work, why it's not the drivers fault, why it is the cyclists fault, why they can't have hubs outside city limits and use smaller delivery vehicles and so on and so forth. It's almost enough to make you miss Glenn Forger, he used to love these threads.

None of the things you mention are impossible, but......

1. Extra person in the cab - not in my lorry thanks. I'm the driver and it's my licence; I'm responsible for driving it, I'm not moving (or not moving as the case may be) on the say so of some disinterested minimum wage observer/lookout or whatever you have in mind.
2. Vehicle design - I'm open to suggestions but it's obviously going to have to be functional too, so there will be limitations as to what they can do.
3. Cameras and mirrors - the problem being that the driver only has one set of eyes, and again I'm not relying on someone else checking mirrors/cameras for me. I can't look in my nearside mirror AND straight ahead at the same time.
4. Hubs and smaller vehicles - that already happens to some extent. Have you ever tried parking a car to make a delivery in a big city, never mind an artic? Not many companies will try to use artics for city centre multi-drop work, but sometimes it can't be helped for logistical reasons or due to the size of the item being delivered/collected. It's not always nice little boxes and pallets to/from shops! Machinery, building materials, pipes, cars etc. all spring to mind.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Sorry I disagree, your kids I presume you go out with them & you either tell them prior to getting into an unsafe position why not to do it, or you scream at them as they do it to stop them doing it, okay maybe not scream but you know what I mean
Nobody is on about, well i'm not on about official training, but if you have people who due to mental disabilities are putting themselves & potentially others in danger, are they in the right place?

I think we may have hit cultural differences here. In Germany it is quite normal for children of six to go to school alone, with one parent probably keeping an eye on them on busy roads. We used to walk with our kids to the crossing over the main road, and let them carry on to school with their friends after that.

Cycling/travelling to school is alone is also quite normal. Children have to take a test first at about ten, and then they're covered by the insurance. People tend to live further away from school here so it is normal to see children cycling to the next town or further, or taking the bus and/or tram.On my way to work I regularly see children from about 10 travelling to school by public transport or by bike unaccompanied. Ours certainly did, but the route is about 95% on traffic free streets, and the other 5% is mostly residential streets, so they don't have to deal with HGV's.

Nobody is on about, well i'm not on about official training, but if you have people who due to mental disabilities are putting themselves & potentially others in danger, are they in the right place?

I think I may be having the same cultural difference here too, so before I specifically answer that, why do you think people with disabilities are putting themselves, and potentially others in danger by riding a bicycle?

 

[classic33]

(Having done some Brief mental gymnastics) Yes, that's what I tend to do. I don't think some drivers are aware of why I'm doing it though, so they are sitting there getting upset because the weirdo hippy on the bike is drifting into the middle of the road...

At least I'm behind, not likely to pass up the left-hand side. And when keeping up with the traffic flow, especially at lights, the distance between tends to be smaller.