Better design of HGVs is key to improving safety for cyclists

[Andy in Germany]

So, yes, in general it's not going to attract the highest calibre of person, but you'd be surprised. I've met an ex airline pilot who found himself unable to fly due to failing the high medical standards required, and also a few retired plod. Some of the best drivers I've met though, are those who might not be the sharpest tool in the box; but what they do have is great awareness of the dangers involved in driving large vehicles. I would say experience counts for a lot more than brains, but when you see an HGV how do you know if it's being driven by a 30 year veteran, or someone who passed their HGV test yesterday?
My advice would be to assume the latter and give them a wide berth.

Another difference: until recently a lot of people doing their military service here would get their truck driver's licence as part of their training. This, you'll appreciate means they are pretty well trained. As far as I know truckers here also have to take a refresher every five years. This includes a fairly advanced first aid course, which is why car drivers are always told to let truckers take charge in the case of an accident.

 

[Andy in Germany]

At least I'm behind, not likely to pass up the left-hand side. And when keeping up with the traffic flow, especially at lights, the distance between tends to be smaller.

Ah, yes, but you're on the road, and worse in front of them: this is not respecting the natural order of things...

 

[Andy in Germany]

This thread gets an airing every now and again and each time the truckers/ex-truckers here will tell us why it's impossible to put an extra person in a cab when the vehicle is within an urban environment.

What? Don't they have that in the UK?

1. Extra person in the cab - not in my lorry thanks. I'm the driver and it's my licence; I'm responsible for driving it, I'm not moving (or not moving as the case may be) on the say so of some disinterested minimum wage observer/lookout or whatever you have in mind.

I know of at least one lad with some learning difficulties who does this now. He always wanted to be a truck driver but lacked the cognitive abilities to learn to drive. It was only when someone asked him why he wanted to drive trucks that they realised it was the travelling that he loved. He now works as a second man. You won't find a more careful one anywhere...

 

[Brandane]

What? Don't they have that in the UK?

What? Do they have that in Germany?

 

[classic33]

Ah, yes, but you're on the road, and worse in front of them: this is not respecting the natural order of things...

I have every legal right to use the roads I use. They don't like it, that's tough.

I prefer the driving of lorry drivers over that of drivers from a local bus company. Whose vehicles have glass almost the length of the passenger door, larger windscreen and are sat lower down.

 

[Brandane]

I know of at least one lad with some learning difficulties who does this now. He always wanted to be a truck driver but lacked the cognitive abilities to learn to drive. It was only when someone asked him why he wanted to drive trucks that they realised it was the travelling that he loved. He now works as a second man. You won't find a more careful one anywhere...

This might work in very limited circumstances, but like I said I personally wouldn't rely on someone else to tell me the road is clear. They could advise, but that's all. Plus I can't see that it would be practical for non local haulage companies. I'm thinking of your many Scottish haulage companies who send lorries down south on a Monday and they don't come back until Friday/Saturday. Known as "trampers", they have no idea where that lorry will be going during the week down south. So do you think the haulage companies are going to pay a second man to go along for the trip, just in case the lorry ends up having to do a job in London/Birmingham/Manchester? It's just not going to happen, on cost grounds alone.

 

[Andy in Germany]

This might work in very limited circumstances, but like I said I personally wouldn't rely on someone else to tell me the road is clear. They could advise, but that's all. Plus I can't see that it would be practical for non local haulage companies. I'm thinking of your many Scottish haulage companies who send lorries down south on a Monday and they don't come back until Friday/Saturday. Known as "trampers", they have no idea where that lorry will be going during the week down south. So do you think the haulage companies are going to pay a second man to go along for the trip, just in case the lorry ends up having to do a job in London/Birmingham/Manchester? It's just not going to happen, on cost grounds alone.

It's very common here. I'll see if I can collar a friendly trucker and ask him about it: I know a few.

 

[classic33]

There was talk some years ago of the driver paying for the second person in the cab. In full or part was never decided before it was quietly forgotten about.

 

[Brandane]

There was talk some years ago of the driver paying for the second person in the cab. In full or part was never decided before it was quietly forgotten about.

Wonder who dreamt that one up? Since your average class 1 lorry driver is on about £9 per hour here in Scotland, and minimum wage is what? £7.00 per hour? So the driver would be earning £2 per hour once he'd paid his lookout? Now I know the haulage industry is fecked, but it's not quite as fecked as that! (Yet).

 

[classic33]

Wonder who dreamt that one up? Since your average class 1 lorry driver is on about £9 per hour here in Scotland, and minimum wage is what? £7.00 per hour? So the driver would be earning £2 per hour once he'd paid his lookout? Now I know the haulage industry is fecked, but it's not quite as fecked as that! (Yet).

It was doing the rounds of the RHA, when safety was raised once before.

Not hard to see why it was allowed to slip away quietly though.

 

[Brandane]

It's very common here. I'll see if I can collar a friendly trucker and ask him about it: I know a few.

Are you thinking of double manning, where there are 2 drivers on board to make more efficient use of the lorry? i.e. keep it on the road for more hours than is allowed with a single driver. That being the case, the second driver, when not driving, is on "rest" for legal reasons and is recorded on his tachograph as such - and he should be doing exactly that; resting (not being a helper/lookout for the driver on duty).

 

[Andy in Germany]

Are you thinking of double manning, where there are 2 drivers on board to make more efficient use of the lorry? i.e. keep it on the road for more hours than is allowed with a single driver. That being the case, the second driver, when not driving, is legally on "rest" for legal reasons and is recorded on his tachograph as such - and he should be doing exactly that; resting (not being a helper/lookout for the driver on duty).

Honestly, I don't know. I have heard my trucking acquaintances speak of a 'Beifahrer' which could mean that, but when a truck reversed into a Mercedes outside of the building we were in, the truckers in the room all spoke as if he should have had a lookout man. I'll ask when I see them next...

 

[Brandane]

but when a truck reversed into a Mercedes outside of the building we were in, the truckers in the room all spoke as if he should have had a lookout man.

So he should, if he couldn't see where he was reversing; as can happen when going backwards! But the normal procedure when I was driving was to enlist the help of a "banksman", which would normally be someone employed by the premises you were trying to access. Borrow the services of a forklift driver for a couple of minutes to keep an eye on the back of your trailer, basically. When reversing at an angle, there are most certainly blind spots and it would be foolhardy to attempt some reversing manoeuvres without assistance. Particularly in close confines where there are cars, lorries, walls, or people!

 

[Andy in Germany]

So he should, if he couldn't see where he was reversing; as can happen when going backwards! But the normal procedure when I was driving was to enlist the help of a "banksman", which would normally be someone employed by the premises you were trying to access. Borrow the services of a forklift driver for a couple of minutes to keep an eye on the back of your trailer, basically. When reversing at an angle, there are most certainly blind spots and it would be foolhardy to attempt some reversing manoeuvres without assistance.

There wouldn't have been anyone where we were:it was a deceleration lane (quite why he was reversing in a deceleration lane is anybodies guess...)

 

[Mugshot]

[QUOTE 5450533, member: 9609"]he had (or someone very very like him) had some sort of thermo-nuclear melt down on lorry drivers forum a few years ago and has never been seen since - some of the funniest threads I have ever seen, when he lost his rag he lost his rag. For a while I dismounted when I heard a wagon coming on the remote chance the driver may have just been in one of his threads. Had to hand it to him he took the argument to those he wanted to argue with, usual MO, would be winning the argument then complete loose the plot.

I quite miss him - he was good value for money.[/QUOTE]
He certainly wasn't one to shy away from a confrontation, have to hand it to him, when it came to the victims in RTCs he knew his stuff.