Bicycle SatNav

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StuAff

Silencing his legs regularly
Location
Portsmouth
Maybe I have misunderstood how they work, but my understanding is that mapping apps on phones do not provide true GPS functionality. In other words they don't get their location from the global positioning satellites but rather by triangulating their position in relation to telephone masts. This in turn means that if you are out of range of a telephone mast they can't tell you where you are.

This was certainly my experience on a recent tour when I discovered my paper map had fallen out of my rear pocket and I was trying to use my phone to work out the route to our destination.
Pretty much every smartphone has GPS. Most of those have Assisted GPS, where wi-fi & mast position is used to get a faster & more accurate fix. Unless you have off-line mapping, you need a wi-fi or phone data connection to actually see where you are. If you do have off-line mapping, GPS is all you need. In Belgium last week with Osmand & local map data loaded on the phone (very helpful backup for the Garmin, much easier to see where I was much of the time), I never needed to use data roaming.
 
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martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
Maybe I have misunderstood how they work, but my understanding is that mapping apps on phones do not provide true GPS functionality. In other words they don't get their location from the global positioning satellites but rather by triangulating their position in relation to telephone masts. This in turn means that if you are out of range of a telephone mast they can't tell you where you are.

This was certainly my experience on a recent tour when I discovered my paper map had fallen out of my rear pocket and I was trying to use my phone to work out the route to our destination.
No a lot of them actually have a GPS functionality in them that is independent of the radio signal. There was a system (it may still be being used) called aGPS that I believe used the masts to get a quicker "fix" on your location but the two phones I have (Note 3 and Nokia Lumia) both have genuine GPS functionality.

Without particularly joining in the argument, my preference is for a dedicated GPS device (Etrex 20 in my case). I'd be incredibly nervous about having my £500 strapped to the front of my bike. Then again, I'm a non-convergent kind of guy: I've only just started using the Note 3 as an MP3 player rather than my iPod but that was only so I could take calls just by pressing a button.
 

StuAff

Silencing his legs regularly
Location
Portsmouth
Thanks @StuAff and @martint235.

So what is the best off-line mapping app for cyclists?
Depends what OS you're on. I've only used Osmand on Android- pretty good. Clear mapping, routing works OK, you can import & export GPXs (so plan via bikehike, for example, then follow the route on the phone, or plan on the phone & export to a Garmin).
 
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contadino

Veteran
Location
Chesterfield
Whether it's a phone or a dedicated unit, for cycling you are best off figuring your own route out beforehand than using turn-by-turn navigation. It will make for a much more pleasurable experience. A bike specific routing algorithm that allows trails will likely take you down some muddy hell of a footpath, and a car specific one down some hideous dual carriageway or even a motorway, and avoid a handy alleyway cut-through. Much better to figure it out yourself first on a map, program that into the device and ask the device to follow that, or navigate by following a line by eye.

Plotting a route and turn-by-turn are different things I think. The turn-by-turn thing is where you're following a set route and you need sat-nav type instructions (i.e. left turn 300 meters, straight on at roundabout, head down dark alleyway and through kids adventure playground, etc...) These are the audio notifications I get from my phone using OSMand and they keep me on the route I had intended.

OSMand does have the facility to plot a route for you, using several different third-party algorithms but I generally build my routes in Endomondo or Google, or pick up GPX files from various websites.

GPS tracking is another part of the same jigsaw puzzle. OSMand can do it but I run Endomondo for that because it syncs to their website automatically so that my friends can see my routes and ride stats.

The final part is mapping. All the fitness type apps fall over here because they don't really have offline map facilities. Of the ones I've seen, this is where OSMand is best for me. They have freely downloadable maps for use offline, they're vector images so they don't fill you phones memory, and they are in layers, so for example you can download a map of all the Little Chefs, or a National Trust map and overlay it onto a road map.
 

yello

Guest
A bike specific routing algorithm that allows trails will likely take you down some muddy hell of a footpath, and a car specific one down some hideous dual carriageway or even a motorway, and avoid a handy alleyway cut-through. Much better to figure it out yourself first on a map, program that into the device and ask the device to follow that

That's my experience. I'm not sure I'd want to follow 'auto-route' for anything other than 'get me outta here' emergencies. And I carry my smartphone with the aforementioned 'Here' for that.

I plot rides from online mapping tools, download them and follow the breadcrumb trail (there's no routing on my GPS). Most of my rides though I just make up as I go according to whim.

Battery life is an issue sure, for any device, but not an insummountable one. Horses for courses etc.
 

Ootini

Senior Member
Location
North Wales
I've got BackCountry Navigator and OsMand installed on my HTC Mini. They both work well.
Without digging up all the cack about phone vs dedicated unit, all I'd say is that in my case the GPS unit on my phone hammers the battery, so if I had the choice I'd prefer a dedicated unit as I'd find it easy to locate some AA/AAA batteries in a local shop than a phone charge and 240v socket.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
all I'd say is that in my case the GPS unit on my phone hammers the battery, so if I had the choice I'd prefer a dedicated unit as I'd find it easy to locate some AA/AAA batteries in a local shop than a phone charge and 240v socket.
Your phone is cack then and you do know you can recharge phones from AAs or 110v too, don't you?
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
Your phone is cack then and you do know you can recharge phones from AAs or 110v too, don't you?
It is so much easier to just plug the AAs into the GPS unit though. Rather than plug the AAs into a powermonkey and then plug the phone into the powermonkey. And then wait a bit.
 

yello

Guest
If I was answering the same question today, I'd probably still go for a dedicated GPS unit. One with changeable AA batteries. I'd not want routing. I'd still carry my smartphone (primarily as a phone) IF I needed routing.

My current unit (Garmin Edge 305) is fine, suits my purposes, but I do need to carry a battery pack for rides over 300km. Which are not at all often.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
I
My current unit (Garmin Edge 305) is fine, suits my purposes, but I do need to carry a battery pack for rides over 300km. Which are not at all often.
This is why I got an Etrex 20 (well a Legend first then a 20). My first real distance ride was 240 miles and my GPS (Edge 605) died predictably quite a long way from home. With the idea of doing LEL already seeded, I needed a GPS that could last a week. The Etrex can't but you can buy AA batteries anywhere. While some GPS units will charge from the likes of a powermonkey some won't allow navigation while charging, the Etrex is up and ready to go in a minute.

I've actually got a "Cycling" phone that means I don't have to take the Note 3 with me just in order to update Facebook, take pictures or heaven forbid call someone.
 

yello

Guest
It would probably be the Etrex I'd go for, or maybe just accept the battery limitation and go for another (non-routing) Edge.

I have looked at non garmin options but I'm not convinced. Lord knows Garmins do have their problems (paticularly new release ones until the software is field debugged!) but they are a robust and generally reliable bit of kit.
 
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