Bike prices - I don’t get it !

[IanSmithCSE]

Good morning,

I did look at small motor bikes recently https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/features/bikes/best-125cc-scooters shows that there are some bargains around.

Lexmoto are well regarded, spares are available and the scooter is likely to do the miles that the owner requires. I would have thought that this would be compared with a Halfords Carrera Virtuoso at £400 though.

Once you get to the big Japanese brands, we are looking much closer to £4k plus.

At the risk of being virtually lynched, a titanium frame will always be expensive because of the need to cover the warranty cost when it breaks. Whereas the Japanese 125 will use the best materials for the job even if these are unsexy and just work.

When looking at this years Specialized Allez at £949 for Claris https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/allez/p/199476?color=322262-199476 it is hard for me not to feel that the price is too high, SunRace cassette at this price!

If we were to use the BoE inflation calculator, the Allez would have cost £175 in 1976, when a 5 speed carbon steel Raleigh was around £70 and 531 frame and forks around £100. A Campag Super Record chainset was around £100 and a pair of sprint (tubular tyre) wheels would have been less than £30 from the LBS.

This would make the Allez a top end club riders machine from a price perspective, although it's pretty hard to compare a 531 frame to a modern aluminium hydroformed one as both have a lot of work gone into them and I simply don't know enough on the subject.

Bye

Ian

 

[Arrowfoot]

Also carbon and Ti requires manual human effort in parts of the manufacturing process. Not enough bike demand around the World to invest in frame automation.

 

[davidphilips]

Only my view and not biased on any research or figures on the internet, push bike parts have always been at a premium.

Take the price of a good tyre for a push bike, have paid out as much for a type for a road bike as i have for my car?

Any one that buys brake fluid for a push bikes brakes and then finds out that brake fluid for a car or motor bike can be bought for a fraction of the price must consider if cyclists are over paying?

Theres a lot of man hours in producing a titanium or carbon bike frame and perhaps thats one reason that frames can be expensive but again just my view and happy to be proved wrong but still think that cyclists are paying well above what they should even for frames/compleat bikes?

 

[FishFright]

What sensible be do - Cor that's expensive , I won't buy it.

What the remaining people do - Cor that's expensive , I better get on social media !

 

[Liffy99]

I know there’s no real answer. But find it hard to justify the difference when you think there is way more engineering, materials, etc in a motor bike than a cycle. Lets be real, a cycle is just a few tubes with some wheels, cogs and tiny brakes. But, sure, it’s not about justification . . .

 

[All uphill]

Seeing the way secondhand prices are going ( sharply downwards) maybe the bicycle shop bonanza is running on borrowed time.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Titanium also has a premium because it's ... well ... expensive. It's an incredibly energy intensive process to refine it. Plus it's very difficult to machine and work with, which adds more cost. Cheapo mopeds probably don't contain Ti.

I agree it does seem a bit weird at first glance that something with an engine should cost the same as something without. But if you take into account volumes of production, materials used, and so on it starts to make a bit more sense.

 

[cougie uk]

Just stepped back to consider . . . looking at a ti frame bike at the moment costing between £2.5k and £3k. For the same money I can buy a brand new 125cc motor bike. Now, I suspect economies of scale might be similar between a mass market motor bike ( which don’t sell in the volumes that cars do) and a mass market decent bike. Given the vast leap in engineering, range of materials, regulatory standards etc between the two - are we being taken for a ride ? ( Pun intended 😂).
How can current cycle prices be justified ?

Look at planet X titanium. About half the price of those you've seen.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I know there’s no real answer. But find it hard to justify the difference when you think there is way more engineering, materials, etc in a motor bike than a cycle. Lets be real, a cycle is just a few tubes with some wheels, cogs and tiny brakes. But, sure, it’s not about justification . . .

Bicycles above BSO level are fairly labour intensive to assemble, and labour is the biggest cost in any manufacturing process. Mass produced motorcycles chug along on an assembly line with unskilled workers bunging various bits on as they pass.

I mean, there are no more parts in a Ferrari than in a Ford Ka but economies of scale make the latter umpteen times cheaper.

 

[keithmac]

If you've ever taken a motorcycle engine to bits, even a single cylinder 125 you'd not really say a bicycle is just as complex imho.

With the cycles they are charging as much as they think people will pay, and rightly so.

I've often looked at Specialized and Lapierre e-MTBs, are the worth the 6k price tag if you break them down into parts, likely not. But as an all round package I'd happily buy one if I could afford it.

 

[Andy in Germany]

My most expensive bike cost ca. 2000 €, about 15 years ago from a small company based in Amsterdam. At the time this bike was considered to be the Rolls Royce high end model. This bike has carried all my family in the cargo box on the front, and all kinds of furniture, recycling stuff, woodworking tools... basically it's a pickup truck, and it's still going strong.

I spent an absolute maximum of 250€ on maintenance it, no fuel/tax/et c. All in with purchase and running costs, that works out at about 200 € per year so far.

And the guarantee on the paintwork still has several years to run...

 

[Dogtrousers]

If you've ever taken a motorcycle engine to bits, even a single cylinder 125 you'd not really say a bicycle is just as complex imho.

Has anyone actually said that?

 

[presta]

Exclusive products are priced for exclusivity, if plebs could afford Ferraris millionaires wouldn't want them. Gold taps don't fill a bath any better than chrome ones, they're just better at letting people know you have the money to buy gold taps.

 

[Smokin Joe]

If you've ever taken a motorcycle engine to bits, even a single cylinder 125 you'd not really say a bicycle is just as complex imho.

I didn't say it was, and yes I have taken a motorcycle engine to bits. But Chinese Motorcycles Incorporated sell zillions of their 125s all over the world and have invested in hi-tech assembly lines designed to fit the things together as quickly and cheaply as possible.

If you are making bicycles aimed at the enthusiast market you can't afford to do that and the machines have to be hand assembled by people with a fair idea of what they are doing, which is not quick or cheap.

 

[kingrollo]

Survival of the fittest.
I'm sure you could beat that Ti price down if you equipped it with low end everything.

Like wise you not going to get a high end motorbike for £2.5k.