Bike prices - I don’t get it !

[bonzobanana]

The average price of a bicycle sold in the world is less than £100 and probably I've not checked the average price of a 125CC scooter/motorbike is £600-800 which is what you would expect I would of thought. There are always going to be options to spend more. If someone will spend that money on a product someone will create a product to fit the price point. Does titanium do anything significantly better than a high tensile steel bicycle, you could argue either way. I think titanium bikes look awesome and I can understand some of the benefits but personally I'd rather not spend the extra especially with a high risk of theft that would limit how I use it. Some people will spend close to £10k on a CF road bike and one bad accident and its destined for landfill as non-recyclable. Spending a lot on new bicycles is an easy way to throw away money as they have high depreciation. I saw a recent comment on youtube where a road cyclist compared his high end road bike with a lowish mid-level road bike of a few years ago and there was 12 watts difference, one was about 7-8kg and the other about 11kg. Thousands spent for 12 watts difference and all the extra expense of replacing lightweight components and reduced levels of safety. You'll still get dropped by a fitter younger rider riding some piece of crap walmart road bike too who perhaps can generate 50 more watts than you.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Like wise you not going to get a high end motorbike for £2.5k.

I know f all about motorcycles so I did a quick search and only 3 of this author's top 10 125cc bikes are under £3k. Most are over £4k. The cheaper ones have names like Sinnis and Lexmoto which are hardly household names, although they may mean something to motorcycle enthusiasts. I suspect they may be the Apollos of the motorbike world.

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/features/bikes/top-10-125-bikes

 

[StuAff]

I know f all about motorcycles so I did a quick search and only 3 of this author's top 10 125cc bikes are under £3k. Most are over £4k. The cheaper ones have names like Sinnis and Lexmoto which are hardly household names, although they may mean something to motorcycle enthusiasts. I suspect they may be the Apollos of the motorbike world.

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/features/bikes/top-10-125-bikes

Pretty much- Sinnis, Lexmoto and many other brands sold in various countries take generic Chinese bikes and scooters, badge them up, flog them for a few years, then move on to the next model. Admittedly, this is slowly changing and they're getting a lot better built with better after sales…

Comparing bicycle manufacture with pretty much any motor vehicle (not just cars or bikes) manufacturer is ridiculous. The economies of scale that the likes of Honda or Ford can leverage in all aspects of their production, are massive. Honda's motorcycle division alone sold over 17 million bikes in 2021-22, and though of course the majority of their & most other companies' sales will be 125cc and smaller, and at lower cost, 'lower cost' means £3k plus in the case of the big boys, and their margins are going to be a lot better than a bicycle, even a high-end one. Even the biggest bicycle manufacturers would be a fraction of those sales, total, and the vast majority of their sales are going to be lower-price and lower margin. The likes of Colnago, Parlee, etc are more comparable to cars like Pagani or Bugatti, perhaps Norton or a limited-run special like the Honda RC213V-S on the two-wheeled side, than anything vaguely mass-market with a motor.

 

[Liffy99]

Look at planet X titanium. About half the price of those you've seen.

Yep, I would be there but, for now, they only fit the SRAM gears, which don’t go low enough. GRX might not be until next year !
Fitting a 40T chainring would not make enough difference. I really need a 2x ( Roadrunner yes, but not enough tyre clearance.

 

[Liffy99]

Yep, I would be there but, for now, they only fit the SRAM gears, which don’t go low enough. GRX might not be until next year !
Fitting a 40T chainring would not make enough difference. I really need a 2x ( Roadrunner yes, but not enough tyre clearance.

Now hoping to get up to Spa Cycles ( Elan, Sabbath AR1 ?) but with lead times etc I may well be waiting until the new year. Ah well.

 

[vickster]

Now hoping to get up to Spa Cycles ( Elan, Sabbath AR1 ?) but with lead times etc I may well be waiting until the new year. Ah well.

How so? Spa look to have stock, eg a triple option if wanting low gears
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s223p4584/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-Ti-(105-10spd-double-and-triple)
Or lots on their offers page
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s223p4584/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-Ti-(105-10spd-double-and-triple)
They say 8 weeks for a custom build

 

[mustang1]

If I needed something with two wheels to get me through a commuting day, I would probably choose a moped. It's faster, I think it requires less servicing, petrol cost is minimal as is insurance. Compare that to a bike: I would have to get a faaast bike because even the slowest moped is faster than the fastest bike, so I'll need all the help I can get.

The current marketing thinking is aero bikes so you'll pay a premium for that. You don't want a bottom of the range aero bike (you will lose a billion watts at 20,000mph, or was it 10W at 50mph, either way, both a silly statements). So I'm thinking you need an aero bike, around £4k. If you buy a moped for £3k, you can use £1k for fuel and insurance.

BUT

If you want a convenient exercise machine, something that will get you through traffic, does not require parking charges or petrol costs, get you door-to-door service in most cases, park anywhere ability, then i think a new £1k bike should be sufficient (or whatever price/model you want). You're gonna sweat though so you'll have to pay extra for showers and food too.

The titanium? Meh, got no answer for that one. Some people say it rides really smooth.....

 

[Dogtrousers]

If I needed something with two wheels to get me through a commuting day, I would probably choose a moped. It's faster, I think it requires less servicing, petrol cost is minimal as is insurance. Compare that to a bike: I would have to get a faaast bike because even the slowest moped is faster than the fastest bike, so I'll need all the help I can get.

The current marketing thinking is aero bikes so you'll pay a premium for that. You don't want a bottom of the range aero bike (you will lose a billion watts at 20,000mph, or was it 10W at 50mph, either way, both a silly statements). So I'm thinking you need an aero bike, around £4k. If you buy a moped for £3k, you can use £1k for fuel and insurance.

BUT

If you want a convenient exercise machine, something that will get you through traffic, does not require parking charges or petrol costs, get you door-to-door service in most cases, park anywhere ability, then i think a new £1k bike should be sufficient (or whatever price/model you want). You're gonna sweat though so you'll have to pay extra for showers and food too.

The titanium? Meh, got no answer for that one. Some people say it rides really smooth.....

If I was looking for a bike purely for commuting, and I was intent on buying new, I'd get a hybrid for about £400-500 from Decathlon or Halfords or somewhere like that. Or I'd get a Brommie (oh, I already have one ) and you know you are paying for swankiness and foldiness there.

Comparing aero bikes with mopeds is a bit weird. An aero bike is for sport cycling, whether its racing or bragging on Strava. A moped isn't (unless you are a sneaky cheat)

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Which Ti framed motorcycle were you looking at?

 

[cougie uk]

Now hoping to get up to Spa Cycles ( Elan, Sabbath AR1 ?) but with lead times etc I may well be waiting until the new year. Ah well.

Ring them up - they fitted a double chainset on mine - SRAM Force. They might be able to sort something for you ?
My mates liked the bike so much they've both bought one - but in the 1x style - having seen them ride those gears now I think its probably a better idea. Certainly simpler on hills - no need to go up a gear and then drop a chainring to get the next gear.

 

[steveindenmark]

You do not have to justify current bike prices. They are mostly a luxury item. If you must have a bike to get to work. You do not have to pay 3k.

 

[Alex321]

Just stepped back to consider . . . looking at a ti frame bike at the moment costing between £2.5k and £3k. For the same money I can buy a brand new 125cc motor bike. Now, I suspect economies of scale might be similar between a mass market motor bike ( which don’t sell in the volumes that cars do) and a mass market decent bike. Given the vast leap in engineering, range of materials, regulatory standards etc between the two - are we being taken for a ride ? ( Pun intended 😂).
How can current cycle prices be justified ?

2.5-3K isn't really a "mass market" bike. A decent "Mass market" bike is going to be more like half that price.

 

[Liffy99]

How so? Spa look to have stock, eg a triple option if wanting low gears
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s223p4584/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-Ti-(105-10spd-double-and-triple)
Or lots on their offers page
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s223p4584/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-Ti-(105-10spd-double-and-triple)
They say 8 weeks for a custom build

I can’t get up there until late Aug, then order if I like, so end of October earliest. Ok, not quite next year but I won’t do much cycling over winter . . .

and yes, they have the required gearing ( but no GRX with 175mm cranks)

 

[vickster]

I can’t get up there until late Aug, then order if I like, so end of October earliest. Ok, not quite next year but I won’t do much cycling over winter . . .

and yes, they have the required gearing ( but no GRX with 175mm cranks)

What’s so good about GRX?

 

[Alex321]

What’s so good about GRX?

From what he has said, he wants the lower gearing available with GRX.

The smallest readily available chainset for road groupsets seems to be 50/34, while for GRX it is 46/30