Bike shop etiquette

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22camels

Active Member
Sorry this has got a bit long.. So I already suspected I was becoming a terrible customer but today I think crossed the line and managed to peeve off two bike shops. I hope you will all agree that I should go rot in hell. I am a bit confused..

Two questions really, one about borrowing tools from shops, other a more general one about our economic relationship with bike shops these days.

Yesterday I took apart my Specialized headset, which has never been serviced, one of those weird specialized "pseudo-integrated" hacks with cheap cage bearings. I did my research online (headsets are confusing) and it turned out I didn't need an entire new headset just a pair of sealed cartridge bearings which I ordered online for 8 quid. The only other thing remaining was to knock out the pressed cups from the head tube. Apparently this can be done with a screwdriver but they looked well lodged and so I really needed a headset cup remover tool which can be had for 15 quid http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/x-tools-headset-cup-remover/rp-prod10223 or you can make one with some copper pipe and a hacksaw.. But it's the sort of thing you'll only ever need once..

So today I go to an LBS to see if I could either borrow their headset cup remover to knock the cups out myself there and then, or to have them do it. Would have happily paid a fiver or even more for this, but I didn't want to book it in and wait around for what's a 30 second job. Shop A: "We don't lend tools. You won't find a shop round here that lends tools. Headset replacement 10 quid, book it in, pick it up at the end of the day." Not that surprising given he's normally quite brusque and opinionated, loves to tell me how rubbish my bike is and I've only been there two or three times for a chat, hardly buying much. Shop B I knew were very friendly and had helped me out before though I already felt guilty there as most recently when I went in to ask about a noise they immediately diagnosed my BB as needing replacing and I almost booked it in, but then I went away and did it all myself for the learning experience. This time: "We don't lend tools because they could get damaged. Book it in. Oh you have the bike outside? OK I suppose I can give you a hand.. " I remove my fork and he goes outside to look. "No can't be done with this tool." "What do you mean, I know for sure it can be done." "Where did you get the headset from?", "Well it's the stock one and I got replacement cartridge bearings from a shop.. ", "Which shop?" "Online..". "Well next time you buy online ask them to borrow the tools as well. You could've got it from us.." He knocks the cups out in 10 seconds. I apologise profusely saying I am not trying to be a cheapskate, that I didn't realise it was such a faux pas, and I am happy to pay a few quid. He just says put a couple of quid in the charity box.. I leave with my headset sorted feeling really bad.

Lessons:

- shops don't lend tools because they get damaged or lost. Understood. Though a headset cup remover is a cheap tool that's hard to break and it's not like I wanted to take it away. If I were to run a bike shop I'd charge 5 quid + deposit for tool hire.

- shops really don't like being asked to lend a tool or to give a hand with a part that you got for cheap online that you could've got from them. Fine, though how was I to know they had this specific type, it was quicker for me to get online, and I am sure most shops would have sold me a whole headset, not many people know that for this specific specialized headset you can replace the cage bearings by a pair of cartridge bearings (it's not recommended by the manufacturer).

- I am inclined to just not bother asking a shop at all next time. Except for big jobs I know need an expert. But I do want to support local bike shops because well, it would be a shame if they disappeared and all we had left was the big chains.

- It helps to have a "good relationship" with a local bike shop. But I've been moving around a lot and even when I'm in one place, I tend to rotate between different shops as they all seem as bad as each other, perhaps I've yet to experience a really good bike shop.. And how does a bike shop keep tabs on who's a good customer and who's not especially if they have several staff on rotation..

Until recently I had zero clue about bike maintenance and happily let LBS fix my bike whenever there was a problem, and happy to buy various things from them. Then I realised for many accessories it helps to shop around online. Then I've got into touring and decided it's really about time I learnt how my bike works should I need to fix it somewhere far away. Also I've just had too many experiences that made me sceptical of bike shops, like being sold a cassette for double the price of their own online store or being told I need a new wheel when it turns out all I really need is a cup and cone hub service, and made me wish I had my own expertise. Lastly, it's so much easier to learn bike DIY for an idiot like me now than 10-15 years ago with all these forums, videos etc you can find very specific information efficiently.

So now not only do I not buy stuff from bike shops, I want as much as possible to do my own labour, mainly to learn how it's done. How is a shop to make money from me? OK I am sure there will be a few tasks I will need their help with but not so often. Even without me I often wonder how their business model is going to last in this online age. And then I still like to go to ask their advice on certain things (like a new bike which I probably won't buy from them anyway), buying a bottle of degreaser as a token gesture of appreciation..

Is this a common experience these days? What is the right stance to take?
 
In my oppinion the correct stance to take is , if you cant do it yourself , if you dont know how to or dont have the tools then you pay some one that does have the knowledge and/or tools to do it , i for one would never ask a bike shop to lend me tools

after reading your post i honestly dont understand how you justify including this little snippet.........

- I am inclined to just not bother asking a shop at all next time. Except for big jobs I know need an expert. But I do want to support local bike shops because well, it would be a shame if they disappeared and all we had left was the big chains


you ask to borrow the tools to avoid paying them to do a job and then say you want to support the local bike shop :wacko:
 
Lots of bike shops will price match, (or nearly so), against online prices, so if you really want to support them as you say you could always speak to them, they might just surprise you.

As for tools, I'm not surprised at all, that's how they make a living and if they lend one where do they draw the line, besides, if the tool you needed was so cheap anyway just buy/make one. It's not the sort of thing you only need once, it's just that you've maybe only needed one once thus far, and you needed it now, but the fact is there's every chance you'll need one again some time.

As for the bearings and re: my LBS, if they were available separately as yours were, but he only had a headset in stock, he'd more than likely sell me the bearings and re-order some for the headset, now that's the mark of a great LBS, but again if you don't ask you don't get.

Last thing from me, I'd have told you to go forth and multiply TBH! Knowing you'd bought online and then asking to borrow tools is damn right cheeky, IMO of course ;)
 

derrick

The Glue that binds us together.
It depends on how well you know your LBS, i have one i use a lot, have spent a lot of money over the years, have no probs going into there workshop and using there tools, to fix my own bike, am always in there chatting and drinking tea, Another shop i use if i asked them to lend me a tool i would not think it would be a problem, but to go into a shop i have only been in a couple of times and ask to borrow tools is something i would not do.
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
I'd have thought charging a "corkage" on top of labour for parts supplied by customer would be a fair arrangement for shop and customer alike. Being grumpy with customers tends to ensure you never darken their doors again, and hence no money drops in their till. But if I were a shop owner, you'd have to be a pretty profitable customer for me to lend tools out.

I've had dive shops say things like "I bet you'd buy air of the internet if you could". "well yes I would actually, given the miserable serviceI get here !"

But other dive shops are happy to charge for air, and you keep going back. Then funnily enough you pay for bits and bobs and kit servicing, and over the years, money finds it's way out of your wallet into their tills, perhaps bigger purchases from time to time, or just some shiny thing you didn't know you needed.
 

winjim

Straddle the line, discord and rhyme
Sheffield has a bike kitchen where you can borrow tools and workshop space to fix your own bike. I think you need to have a short induction course so they know you're going to use all the stuff properly.

http://sheffieldcycleboost.org/bike-kitchen/
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
this thread reminds me of something said to my Dad when he bought some watch repairing tools from a trade outlet that did repairs themselves as well. He enquired whether they were worried about losing trade by selling tools. "don't worry, we get plenty of work from people who try and repair their own watches".
 
just to help out the op, this is what a proper bike shop and owner should look like, i wonder if @tissot remembers it, and his name (it is unfortunately long since gone)
3v7bnj0u.jpg
 

screenman

Squire
The shop name, is it Ken Ryall^_^ Now I wonder how many of you will remember him, I do as he used to take me to races I was in as my parents had no car.

Proper bike shop as we call them now, but he made a very meagre living from it.
 
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