22camels
Active Member
Sorry this has got a bit long.. So I already suspected I was becoming a terrible customer but today I think crossed the line and managed to peeve off two bike shops. I hope you will all agree that I should go rot in hell. I am a bit confused..
Two questions really, one about borrowing tools from shops, other a more general one about our economic relationship with bike shops these days.
Yesterday I took apart my Specialized headset, which has never been serviced, one of those weird specialized "pseudo-integrated" hacks with cheap cage bearings. I did my research online (headsets are confusing) and it turned out I didn't need an entire new headset just a pair of sealed cartridge bearings which I ordered online for 8 quid. The only other thing remaining was to knock out the pressed cups from the head tube. Apparently this can be done with a screwdriver but they looked well lodged and so I really needed a headset cup remover tool which can be had for 15 quid http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/x-tools-headset-cup-remover/rp-prod10223 or you can make one with some copper pipe and a hacksaw.. But it's the sort of thing you'll only ever need once..
So today I go to an LBS to see if I could either borrow their headset cup remover to knock the cups out myself there and then, or to have them do it. Would have happily paid a fiver or even more for this, but I didn't want to book it in and wait around for what's a 30 second job. Shop A: "We don't lend tools. You won't find a shop round here that lends tools. Headset replacement 10 quid, book it in, pick it up at the end of the day." Not that surprising given he's normally quite brusque and opinionated, loves to tell me how rubbish my bike is and I've only been there two or three times for a chat, hardly buying much. Shop B I knew were very friendly and had helped me out before though I already felt guilty there as most recently when I went in to ask about a noise they immediately diagnosed my BB as needing replacing and I almost booked it in, but then I went away and did it all myself for the learning experience. This time: "We don't lend tools because they could get damaged. Book it in. Oh you have the bike outside? OK I suppose I can give you a hand.. " I remove my fork and he goes outside to look. "No can't be done with this tool." "What do you mean, I know for sure it can be done." "Where did you get the headset from?", "Well it's the stock one and I got replacement cartridge bearings from a shop.. ", "Which shop?" "Online..". "Well next time you buy online ask them to borrow the tools as well. You could've got it from us.." He knocks the cups out in 10 seconds. I apologise profusely saying I am not trying to be a cheapskate, that I didn't realise it was such a faux pas, and I am happy to pay a few quid. He just says put a couple of quid in the charity box.. I leave with my headset sorted feeling really bad.
Lessons:
- shops don't lend tools because they get damaged or lost. Understood. Though a headset cup remover is a cheap tool that's hard to break and it's not like I wanted to take it away. If I were to run a bike shop I'd charge 5 quid + deposit for tool hire.
- shops really don't like being asked to lend a tool or to give a hand with a part that you got for cheap online that you could've got from them. Fine, though how was I to know they had this specific type, it was quicker for me to get online, and I am sure most shops would have sold me a whole headset, not many people know that for this specific specialized headset you can replace the cage bearings by a pair of cartridge bearings (it's not recommended by the manufacturer).
- I am inclined to just not bother asking a shop at all next time. Except for big jobs I know need an expert. But I do want to support local bike shops because well, it would be a shame if they disappeared and all we had left was the big chains.
- It helps to have a "good relationship" with a local bike shop. But I've been moving around a lot and even when I'm in one place, I tend to rotate between different shops as they all seem as bad as each other, perhaps I've yet to experience a really good bike shop.. And how does a bike shop keep tabs on who's a good customer and who's not especially if they have several staff on rotation..
Until recently I had zero clue about bike maintenance and happily let LBS fix my bike whenever there was a problem, and happy to buy various things from them. Then I realised for many accessories it helps to shop around online. Then I've got into touring and decided it's really about time I learnt how my bike works should I need to fix it somewhere far away. Also I've just had too many experiences that made me sceptical of bike shops, like being sold a cassette for double the price of their own online store or being told I need a new wheel when it turns out all I really need is a cup and cone hub service, and made me wish I had my own expertise. Lastly, it's so much easier to learn bike DIY for an idiot like me now than 10-15 years ago with all these forums, videos etc you can find very specific information efficiently.
So now not only do I not buy stuff from bike shops, I want as much as possible to do my own labour, mainly to learn how it's done. How is a shop to make money from me? OK I am sure there will be a few tasks I will need their help with but not so often. Even without me I often wonder how their business model is going to last in this online age. And then I still like to go to ask their advice on certain things (like a new bike which I probably won't buy from them anyway), buying a bottle of degreaser as a token gesture of appreciation..
Is this a common experience these days? What is the right stance to take?
Two questions really, one about borrowing tools from shops, other a more general one about our economic relationship with bike shops these days.
Yesterday I took apart my Specialized headset, which has never been serviced, one of those weird specialized "pseudo-integrated" hacks with cheap cage bearings. I did my research online (headsets are confusing) and it turned out I didn't need an entire new headset just a pair of sealed cartridge bearings which I ordered online for 8 quid. The only other thing remaining was to knock out the pressed cups from the head tube. Apparently this can be done with a screwdriver but they looked well lodged and so I really needed a headset cup remover tool which can be had for 15 quid http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/x-tools-headset-cup-remover/rp-prod10223 or you can make one with some copper pipe and a hacksaw.. But it's the sort of thing you'll only ever need once..
So today I go to an LBS to see if I could either borrow their headset cup remover to knock the cups out myself there and then, or to have them do it. Would have happily paid a fiver or even more for this, but I didn't want to book it in and wait around for what's a 30 second job. Shop A: "We don't lend tools. You won't find a shop round here that lends tools. Headset replacement 10 quid, book it in, pick it up at the end of the day." Not that surprising given he's normally quite brusque and opinionated, loves to tell me how rubbish my bike is and I've only been there two or three times for a chat, hardly buying much. Shop B I knew were very friendly and had helped me out before though I already felt guilty there as most recently when I went in to ask about a noise they immediately diagnosed my BB as needing replacing and I almost booked it in, but then I went away and did it all myself for the learning experience. This time: "We don't lend tools because they could get damaged. Book it in. Oh you have the bike outside? OK I suppose I can give you a hand.. " I remove my fork and he goes outside to look. "No can't be done with this tool." "What do you mean, I know for sure it can be done." "Where did you get the headset from?", "Well it's the stock one and I got replacement cartridge bearings from a shop.. ", "Which shop?" "Online..". "Well next time you buy online ask them to borrow the tools as well. You could've got it from us.." He knocks the cups out in 10 seconds. I apologise profusely saying I am not trying to be a cheapskate, that I didn't realise it was such a faux pas, and I am happy to pay a few quid. He just says put a couple of quid in the charity box.. I leave with my headset sorted feeling really bad.
Lessons:
- shops don't lend tools because they get damaged or lost. Understood. Though a headset cup remover is a cheap tool that's hard to break and it's not like I wanted to take it away. If I were to run a bike shop I'd charge 5 quid + deposit for tool hire.
- shops really don't like being asked to lend a tool or to give a hand with a part that you got for cheap online that you could've got from them. Fine, though how was I to know they had this specific type, it was quicker for me to get online, and I am sure most shops would have sold me a whole headset, not many people know that for this specific specialized headset you can replace the cage bearings by a pair of cartridge bearings (it's not recommended by the manufacturer).
- I am inclined to just not bother asking a shop at all next time. Except for big jobs I know need an expert. But I do want to support local bike shops because well, it would be a shame if they disappeared and all we had left was the big chains.
- It helps to have a "good relationship" with a local bike shop. But I've been moving around a lot and even when I'm in one place, I tend to rotate between different shops as they all seem as bad as each other, perhaps I've yet to experience a really good bike shop.. And how does a bike shop keep tabs on who's a good customer and who's not especially if they have several staff on rotation..
Until recently I had zero clue about bike maintenance and happily let LBS fix my bike whenever there was a problem, and happy to buy various things from them. Then I realised for many accessories it helps to shop around online. Then I've got into touring and decided it's really about time I learnt how my bike works should I need to fix it somewhere far away. Also I've just had too many experiences that made me sceptical of bike shops, like being sold a cassette for double the price of their own online store or being told I need a new wheel when it turns out all I really need is a cup and cone hub service, and made me wish I had my own expertise. Lastly, it's so much easier to learn bike DIY for an idiot like me now than 10-15 years ago with all these forums, videos etc you can find very specific information efficiently.
So now not only do I not buy stuff from bike shops, I want as much as possible to do my own labour, mainly to learn how it's done. How is a shop to make money from me? OK I am sure there will be a few tasks I will need their help with but not so often. Even without me I often wonder how their business model is going to last in this online age. And then I still like to go to ask their advice on certain things (like a new bike which I probably won't buy from them anyway), buying a bottle of degreaser as a token gesture of appreciation..
Is this a common experience these days? What is the right stance to take?