I agree - at least he is making the points we all want made -though no doubt not a forcefully as some would like ...
Boardman on BBC Breakfast...
- Thread starter GrumpyGregry
- Start date
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While i find some of Chris Boardman's ideas interesting, I often worry about the urban-centric view of cycle safety. Constantly banging on about Holland, segregated cycle paths, choosing safer routes etc is simply not addressing the issues in the area I live and cycle in.
When I go for a spin around the lanes of Herefordshire & Worcestershire, box junctions, huge roundabouts, traffic light jumpers and all the other issues associated with urban cycling don't affect me. We have other issues like inch deep road mud by the exits of fields, sheep on the road, suicidal pheasants and squirrels and hedges on narrow lanes that mean cyclists are often seen at the last minute. Nothing CB has said addresses those risks.
But the main danger I feel is that some drivers feel that we cyclists should simply not be on their roads and treat us accordingly, and when they tune into breakfast TV they hear CB arguing that the way forward is segregated cycle paths..the Dutch modal..keeping clear of busy routes, this is reinforced. While segregation is (one day) hopefully achievable in urban areas, it is not desirable or achievable in countryside settings.
In future I would like Chris Boardman to make that distinction, just to make it clear to some of the idiots I talk to down the pub.
When I go for a spin around the lanes of Herefordshire & Worcestershire, box junctions, huge roundabouts, traffic light jumpers and all the other issues associated with urban cycling don't affect me. We have other issues like inch deep road mud by the exits of fields, sheep on the road, suicidal pheasants and squirrels and hedges on narrow lanes that mean cyclists are often seen at the last minute. Nothing CB has said addresses those risks.
But the main danger I feel is that some drivers feel that we cyclists should simply not be on their roads and treat us accordingly, and when they tune into breakfast TV they hear CB arguing that the way forward is segregated cycle paths..the Dutch modal..keeping clear of busy routes, this is reinforced. While segregation is (one day) hopefully achievable in urban areas, it is not desirable or achievable in countryside settings.
In future I would like Chris Boardman to make that distinction, just to make it clear to some of the idiots I talk to down the pub.
MOD NOTE 3:
The 'presumption of guilt/ burden of proof/ liability' laws are probably better in another thread too - can you guess where ?
The pub again?
glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
OP
OP
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
Standard for Sussex. but the reality is urban cyclists probably outnumber us rural idyll-ists what? 50:1
I'd quite happily accept decent so-called "Dutch-style" segregated facilities on the A22, A23, A24, A27, A29, A264, A272 and A281 to name but a few no-go countryside roads off the top of my head....
[QUOTE 3362428, member: 45"]NON-MOD NOTE 1:
This thread now has more mod notes than posts on the subject of Boardman on Breakfast. Can you start another thread for admonishing please so that we can stay on track?[/QUOTE]
Nah - you'll just get the posts Deleted for being OT ! 
This thread now has more mod notes than posts on the subject of Boardman on Breakfast. Can you start another thread for admonishing please so that we can stay on track?[/QUOTE]
Nah - you'll just get the posts Deleted for being OT !
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
West Norfolk is something like 2/3rds rural, so I know what you mean, especially about mud left on roads by bad users who don't clean up after themselves, and about bad/no hedge cutting that could have someone's eye out.
But if you scroll around http://hereford.cyclestreets.net/collisions/ a bit, the dots are clustered around urban areas. Those are where most cyclists need the most help, which is why national campaigners focus on them.
It depends on the countryside setting: on remote country lanes, probably not; rat runs would be best dealt with by access restrictions and possibly gating; but major barrier roads would benefit from protected space for cycling (not segregation) and it's often achievable because there are unused verges within the highway corridor. Other than that, green walking/cycle-only routes such as along river bank tops are well worthwhile. Personally, I don't call for segregation because of exactly the reasons given - I call for protected space instead.
Ultimately, I agree with you that rural cycling safety has different solutions, but - partly because most rural areas haven't been rebuilt to benefit motorists and kill cyclists quite as much as urban ones - it seems a less urgent problem.
From my limited experience "Dutch-style" segregation leads to roads without paths often becoming prohibited for cyclists. If a wonderful cycle path is provided up one of the Malvern Hill roads, it would inevitably lead to the presumption that that would be the only safe road to use.
As for cyclist number ratios, I agree. I would just be happier if the distinction is made between urban and rural cycling when argued about in the media.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Can you name one in this country? I can think of a few non-motorway roads where cycling is prohibited, but they had no cycleway nearby at the time of the ban.
I think there are far more rural roads which most riders have been effectively bullied off of, which could be reopened to riders by providing a proper guidance-exceeding cycleway alongside. I think this in part because of how many riders appear from apparently nowhere to use absolute crap "white paint and blue signs only" paths in preference to ill-designed roads used by underpoliced motorists.
Again, if you provide "protected space for cycling (not segregation)" on some roads does that mean that there should be a compulsion for cyclists to use them over non pathed roads? My only concern is that if the message is that some roads are protected and some are not, a portion of blame will be attached to cyclists involved in accidents who choose the "unprotected" one.
I absolutely agree that urban environments carry more risks, and the solutions are specific. I only wish that destination was made by people such as Chris Boardman and the media.
That's my point, I have never come across such a road in the UK but have in some European countries that have the argued for 'Dutch system'.
If we establish one do we get the other....and to what extent?
Fab Foodie
hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
- Location
- Kirton, Devon.
In that case we should all move to a better quality of Pub ...
[QUOTE 3362522, member: 45"]Can I ask what experience?[/QUOTE]
A bit of cycling around Europe, but I mainly head to the hills so dont do much in the Netherlands. There were some roads around Bruges that were motorised vehicles only. I also got extremely frustrated trying to get out of Lourdes last year as the main road to Argles Gazost is cyclist prohibited. I did find the (admittedly amazing) parallel cycle path in the end. Spain (around Pamplona IIRC) had one road that just changed to no bikes after about a mile. I and a few others did cycle quite a way down a french motorway once...but thats a different matter!
A bit of cycling around Europe, but I mainly head to the hills so dont do much in the Netherlands. There were some roads around Bruges that were motorised vehicles only. I also got extremely frustrated trying to get out of Lourdes last year as the main road to Argles Gazost is cyclist prohibited. I did find the (admittedly amazing) parallel cycle path in the end. Spain (around Pamplona IIRC) had one road that just changed to no bikes after about a mile. I and a few others did cycle quite a way down a french motorway once...but thats a different matter!
glenn forger
Guest
I found it very easy, and couldn't wait, to get out of Lourdes, I was going south.
