Bonj's thoughts on a better technical section

[Andy in Sig]

I've nothing to do with this!

Could people stop associating me with bonj please....

I think you've been outed as Bonj's mole. Resistance is futile so you might as well come clean and do as you're told. Bonj might even let you stroke the Persian cat.

 

[Andy in Sig]

By the same token, I don't see the value in replies to technical questions advising no more than "just take it back to the LBS - it should be under warranty".
That may be mentioned, and it may even be the first port of call. But it should at least be qualified with a technical analysis of what the problem is, and what to do if the LBS are no use.
JUST telling someone to go to the LBS exhibits no amount of passing on of cycling knowledge, and is a lazy way to appear to have answered the question without having actually put any thought into it.

I think that that is a valid whinge about the standard of some replies and I can see why it might irritate somebody who really wants to get down to the nuts and bolts. Most people would say: "Well just ignore the vacuous posts". However in a spirit of understanding your irritation, here's a suggestion for you and Shaun to consider.

How about a reference forum on all matters technical? i.e. as advice on a topic comes up it is quality checked and collated (by you and anybody else who wants to work with you on it) indexed and displayed as a quick source of reference material. We already have the idea in principle with the hotels fixed thread but imagine if that were broken down into listings by country and then town.

I suspect that you would make a very good job of such a thing and most importantly, I reckon you would keep the quality up. I know people will say "but Sheldon Brown is there already" as indeed he is/was but I can see no harm in this site having its equivalent but in our idiom. What do you reckon?

 

[Fab Foodie]

No, absolutely nothing for *serious cyclists* on this forum. Why there's absolutely no catering for the sporty racer, the off-roader, the touring & expidition cyclist, the audaxer.. no, nothing like this on CC. Shaun should be ashamed of his piddlingly-poor forum provision

I find plenty here for the *Grumpy* cyclist though... I post much of it!

 

[Danny]

Yes, that's the mentality we're dealing with - that of a spoiled toddler who wants everything thier own way, but wants someone else to do all the work and pay for it all.. Set your forum up. Let's see if it lasts as long as your blog - about a week, wasn't it?

Shaun did ask Bonj to come forward with suggestions of changes he would like to see in CC.

I don't think it is very helpful to attack him in a personal way like this, when he does come up with ideas.

 

[Danny]

No, absolutely nothing for *serious cyclists* on this forum. Why there's absolutely no catering for the sporty racer, the off-roader, the touring & expidition cyclist, the audaxer.. no, nothing like this on CC. Shaun should be ashamed of his piddlingly-poor forum provision

Point taken. To differentiate it from the serious discussions elsewhere on CC, the new forum could be called "Ultra Serious Cyclists" or perhaps "Cycling Obsessions".

I am keen to have this up and running asap as I want to see what it takes for Bonj and Noodley to ban me

 

[wafflycat]

I know very well the subcategories are there, but they aren't well developed. The whole point when someone says this such subsection should be created/modified is on what is posted/isn't posted. They aren't very vibrant sections/enough expertise/friendly enough/serious enough so someone posts in a different section that is busier and someone gets cheesed off with it. Ask yourself if you felt that you couldn't post in the cafe would your view be different? If someone didn't feel like they should post in beginners, was an outlaw in the cafe, couldn't stand the hotheadedness of commuting and just isn't interested in P&L, are the other sections vibrant enough to sustain interest?

I can post in *any* section I feel like.There is no section where I feel I cannot post. In the various sections I have found many useful questions/answers/advice given and usually in a prettty friendly way. There is no section that says 'bog off, you're not welcome, as we're not serious/friendly/useful/etc., etc. And if I felt that the *multitude* of cycling boards here were not sufficiently serious/vibrant/interesting enough, then I'd bugger off elsewhere rather than whinge about it.

 

[John the Monkey]

How about a reference forum on all matters technical? i.e. as advice on a topic comes up it is quality checked and collated (by you and anybody else who wants to work with you on it) indexed and displayed as a quick source of reference material. We already have the idea in principle with the hotels fixed thread but imagine if that were broken down into listings by country and then town.

Panter had an idea for technical stickes, I think, in the know how section (e.g. gear adjustment advice and tutorials, brake adjustment &c).

TBH, I don't mind answering things as they come up (in beginners, know how), but maybe that's just me.

 

[Andy in Sig]

I agree that it is good to give answers to beginners as it is part of making them feel welcome. That said, maybe it wouldn't hurt to give them an answer and point out that we have an indexed library of further knowledge.

 

[bonj2]

Yes, that's the mentality we're dealing with - that of a spoiled toddler who wants everything thier own way, but wants someone else to do all the work and pay for it all.. Set your forum up. Let's see if it lasts as long as your blog - about a week, wasn't it?

To be fair, the sub forums idea was only a light hearted suggestion that I never expected anybody to take seriously. As it turns out, I'm quite surprised they have. I was expecting it to be laughed off - instead, a lot of people seem to be getting fairly combative about it, they seem to be worried it might actually be implemented?
I'm not asking for someone to do lots of work and pay money for stuff that hardly anybody wants. I'm not asking for anybody to put lots of effort into giving me my own personal soapbox.
Far from it.
It's just a suggestion for something for which it *might* be the case that it would cost no money, hardly any effort, but be quite popular. If that isn't the case, then it can just be dismissed as an idea that never took off - I wouldn't (and haven't) take(n) offence at that, so there's no need to be so defensive.
It's not exactly like I've spent ages militantly campaigning for it either, I've simply suggested it and provided details for how it could work.

 

[bonj2]

I think that that is a valid whinge about the standard of some replies and I can see why it might irritate somebody who really wants to get down to the nuts and bolts. Most people would say: "Well just ignore the vacuous posts". However in a spirit of understanding your irritation, here's a suggestion for you and Shaun to consider.

How about a reference forum on all matters technical? i.e. as advice on a topic comes up it is quality checked and collated (by you and anybody else who wants to work with you on it) indexed and displayed as a quick source of reference material. We already have the idea in principle with the hotels fixed thread but imagine if that were broken down into listings by country and then town.

I suspect that you would make a very good job of such a thing and most importantly, I reckon you would keep the quality up. I know people will say "but Sheldon Brown is there already" as indeed he is/was but I can see no harm in this site having its equivalent but in our idiom. What do you reckon?

I think in principle it's a good idea. Its success though would live or die off how inclined people would be to use it. That would be driven by how easy and user friendly it is to use, and that in turn would probably be driven by how much time went into it.
There will be those that will say "but people just want a personalized response which is why the same questions get asked again and again" and to some extent, they're right.
Although having a searchable reference would be no bad thing. Hopefully there could be some way of using existing, good, replies as the content, but having some mechanism of cataloguing them. Maybe initially by having a 'wrapper' thread which groups up links to similar good replies on a subject.

 

[Andy in Sig]

There you go then. Have a chat with Shaun. I reckon he might give you his blessing to get on with it. How much it got used would be dependant on how good it was.

 

[Chuffy]

I don't think it is very helpful to attack him in a personal way like this, when he does come up with ideas.

After arguing with Bonj for a while reasoned debate just wants to hide under a rock and cry, while unreasonable irritation comes out to play…

The main weakness of this place is the Know How and Accessories sections. They don’t seem to have a high turnover of threads and they do suffer from the accumulation of off-topic posts and diversions into silliness. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that those two areas should be monitored and Modded quite strictly within clear guidelines. On C+ there seemed to be a general understanding that the Know How section wasn’t for banter and I think the section was stronger and better used on account of it. That might settle some of Bonj’s grumbles as well as making those two areas more valuable to people coming here for help and advice.

 

[John the Monkey]

The main weakness of this place is the Know How and Accessories sections. They don’t seem to have a high turnover of threads and they do suffer from the accumulation of off-topic posts and diversions into silliness. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that those two areas should be monitored and Modded quite strictly within clear guidelines. On C+ there seemed to be a general understanding that the Know How section wasn’t for banter and I think the section was stronger and better used on account of it.

Off topic posts yes, silliness? Maybe. I'd agree that there's no place for ironic comments &c in Beginners though.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I think that that is a valid whinge about the standard of some replies and I can see why it might irritate somebody who really wants to get down to the nuts and bolts.

I don't think it is, really. If Bonj (or anyone else) is unhappy with other people's posts and still wants to stay, then he should simply make better posts. Or, if he wants a purely technical forum, he can go and set one up. Easy.

 

[Andy in Sig]

That's a fair enough alternative take. I am perhaps more inclined to see if his concerns are reasonable enough to make sense and be accommodated.