Bonj's thoughts on a better technical section

[Rhythm Thief]

That's a fair enough alternative take. I am perhaps more inclined to see if his concerns are reasonable enough to make sense and be accommodated.

Perhaps they are, in isolation. But where does it stop? Do we then give Linf a sub forum where he can talk about 4X4s and horses? Do we give User482 his own sub forum for green issues? Or Do we just throw it open to everyone who wants to ask for one? It seems to me to be the height of rudeness to come onto someone else's forum, flounce off, then come back and start saying how it's not quite how you'd like it to be, and could we possibly run it a bit more the way I like it, please?

 

[Panter]

Panter had an idea for technical stickes, I think, in the know how section (e.g. gear adjustment advice and tutorials, brake adjustment &c).

TBH, I don't mind answering things as they come up (in beginners, know how), but maybe that's just me.

That really came from when I was trying to find that gear indexing guide you'd posted before but couldn't find in the end.

I just thought that it would be of use, not just for newbies, but for anyone who wanted a quick way of finding that sort of information.

To be honest, an "Ask John-The-Monkey" sub forum would cover it as 99.9% of those really helpful links/answers came from you!

 

[John the Monkey]

To be honest, an "Ask John-The-Monkey" sub forum would cover it as 99.9% of those really helpful links/answers came from you!

I'd crack under the pressure.

Now an "Ask Mickle" section...

 

[Dayvo]

Well that cigar will have to go for a start!

Go where, exactly?

 

[Chuffy]

Off topic posts yes, silliness? Maybe. I'd agree that there's no place for ironic comments &c in Beginners though.

There is a thread in Know How about cutting mudguard stays which has now run to 70 posts. It's very funny (shaped explosive charges, anglegrinders, Plax's dad etc) but it's not really appropriate for Know How. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. I don't know how hard it would be for the Mods to split the thread, leaving relevant technical replies in Know How and moving the silly stuff in Cafe, but that would seem sensible.

Technical Stickies - I've never been a fan of the idea. Too many subjects to cover and it doesn't encourage new blood to start answering questions when the old lags have got tired of answering yet another 'which tyre?' thread, or whatever. The answer might be to create a technical library for detailed articles on aspects of repairs (or just a load of links to Sheldon Brown and Park Tools etc) but creating a load of stickies isn't the answer.

 

[bonj2]

Perhaps they are, in isolation. But where does it stop? Do we then give Linf a sub forum where he can talk about 4X4s and horses? Do we give User482 his own sub forum for green issues? Or Do we just throw it open to everyone who wants to ask for one? It seems to me to be the height of rudeness to come onto someone else's forum, flounce off, then come back and start saying how it's not quite how you'd like it to be, and could we possibly run it a bit more the way I like it, please?

Well, the idea being that yes, we do throw it open to anybody that wants - but possibly with the proviso that they have to get a certain amount of nominations, like MPs do to stand for parliament. (And/or just be approved by the existing mods.)
Therefore they could have those if they wanted, but if they were unpopular, then they would be binned off.
Or if, as is likely to be the case with linf's sub forum, it just turned into an endless argument between him and Mr P about whether drivers are victimized or not, then it could simply be moved into a single thread in Room 101 on grounds of exclusion.
I'm not sure User482 would want his own sub forum for green issues, as I'm not sure he particularly wants the USP that it offers, namely the ability to mod it the way he wants. Perhaps if he does, then it should be taken as a warning that he intends to, for example, ban any opinions that are not backed up by evidence - although that being the case, it should possibly be explained in his blurb.

 

[Andy in Sig]

RT is making a sensible enough point and bonj has his views. Perhaps the way ahead would be for Shaun to come to some sort of decision, which if it is other than "no chance" he could then put to a poll.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Well, the idea being that yes, we do throw it open to anybody that wants - but possibly with the proviso that they have to get a certain amount of nominations, like MPs do to stand for parliament. (And/or just be approved by the existing mods.)
Therefore they could have those if they wanted, but if they were unpopular, then they would be binned off.
Or if, as is likely to be the case with linf's sub forum, it just turned into an endless argument between him and Mr P about whether drivers are victimized or not, then it could simply be moved into a single thread in Room 101 on grounds of exclusion.
I'm not sure User482 would want his own sub forum for green issues, as I'm not sure he particularly wants the USP that it offers, namely the ability to mod it the way he wants. Perhaps if he does, then it should be taken as a warning that he intends to, for example, ban any opinions that are not backed up by evidence - although that being the case, it should possibly be explained in his blurb.

Ok, fair enough. You've thought it through and explained it well, I'll give you that.

 

[Shaun]

I'm addressing some of the points here by creating a framework of Rules and Guidelines for CC.

I've never felt the need for them before, but as we've grown and more and more people arrive without prior knowledge of how CC works, the lines are have become a little blurred.

The new rules (which I'll publish and announce soon) will give everyone an idea of what is acceptable and what is not, and hopefully allow for better forum and thread management. It won't account for absolutely everything, but it's much more comprehensive than "Be nice to each other ... "

The rules will also help the moderators to take swifter action when people transgress, and offer a more structured approach to managing threads and posts within the forums. There will be less need to discuss and deliberate, because more often now it will be clear when a specific rule has been broken.

That being said, me and the mods volunteer our free time and there is absolutely no way we can ever manage to moderate every thread and post in every forum, so if you seen things, you've got to report them to us.

Within the rules there will be specific reference to the Know How and Technical forums, addressing the issue of non-technical replies and off-topic rambling. This is based on Bonj's thoughts for a cleaner, clearer technical aspect to CC.

I will not be taking up the idea of sub-forums, however I have previously discussed the idea of a knowledge base that is managed by CC members, and think this, in essence, is what you're talking about.

Technically, this is entirely possible and I think would be a good asset to CC. A sort of extended library of advice and tips, that could be managed by one or more members. (Ha, Bonj the librarian .... )

However, just now I simply don't have the time to set this up. I've got it in my to-do folder, but can't see me getting around to this before the end of this year.

I do have plans to take a couple of days off in the new year to re-work the site and to add some new features so it may be that next year we get the chance to make a start on this.

Thanks for the feedback,
Shaun

 

[goo_mason]

That sounds pretty good to me!

I think we were getting to the 'we need some rules' stage anyway, as the 'Friendly Place' was starting to get pretty unfriendly in certain places lately, and some people just seem far too keen to keep pushing the boundaries.

Nice one, Shaun

 

[Archie_tect]

Excellent- much appreciated Shaun.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

Well one thing that strikes me as the difference between this and yacf is this: the scope of the 'general' forum.
The 'general' forum on here is "cafe", and it is, by intent or by evolution or whatever means, largely NON-cycling related. It doesn't list itself as cycling related or non cycling related, but by fair means or foul, it IS largely non-cycling related - people just post in there about what's going on in their life.
Compare this to on yacf, on which I would say the 'general' forum is probably 'freewheeling'. By contrast, this IS a cycling related forum.

People log onto a forum and, quite justifiably, either can't, can't be bothered to, or incorrectly, decide what sub-forum to post their thread in. So they post it in what they perceive to be the general forum. Maximum exposure is at a higher priority in people's minds than relevance and keeping the sub-forums on-topic.

So, I may be wrong here, but I think certainly my, and going by the atmosphere that has been fostered, a lot of people's, perception is that people log on to yacf, check 'freewheeling', and bugger off again. People log onto cc, check 'cafe', and bugger off again. ergo, if someone's got a 'general' post that's cycling related, they post it on yacf. If they've got a 'general' post that's NON-cycling related, they post it here.

That's my guess. It may not be 100% correct, but I think it's certainly got some element of a reflection of what's actually the case.

just as a point of order, i think you'll find the pub is yacf's general non-cycling forum, with sub fora including a politics and life style debating forum.

 

[MacB]

There is a thread in Know How about cutting mudguard stays which has now run to 70 posts. It's very funny (shaped explosive charges, anglegrinders, Plax's dad etc) but it's not really appropriate for Know How. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. I don't know how hard it would be for the Mods to split the thread, leaving relevant technical replies in Know How and moving the silly stuff in Cafe, but that would seem sensible.

Technical Stickies - I've never been a fan of the idea. Too many subjects to cover and it doesn't encourage new blood to start answering questions when the old lags have got tired of answering yet another 'which tyre?' thread, or whatever. The answer might be to create a technical library for detailed articles on aspects of repairs (or just a load of links to Sheldon Brown and Park Tools etc) but creating a load of stickies isn't the answer.

I think Chuffy, with this and his other post, has grasped the essence of the issue re Know How stuff. Having tried to explore via the search function here I can verify how unproductive this can be. I think Shauns idea of a clean up and more orderly posting in Knowhow makes sense. If the techie bit expands to more I think this will only be as a result of voluntary work by CC members. I've been collating all the info I've come across and will happily write it up. I do think a few stickies would be good, just the basics, something like:-

bike parts - a detailed post, with diagrams, listing all component parts of a bike, the various names they're known by and what is compatible with what
LBS's - a list of bike shops with CC member reviews that are dated
bike types - list the types, use and pros/cons of each type
frame materials - list the options and pros/cons including the specific type of steel/alu/titanium/carbon


I would love CC to be a one stop shop but do understand it's not practical to recreate vast swathes of data from elsewhere on the net, links would be needed.

 

[Chuffy]

I think Chuffy, with this and his other post, has grasped the essence of the issue re Know How stuff. Having tried to explore via the search function here I can verify how unproductive this can be.

Having grasped the essence I hope that it can be tugged to a satisfactory conclusion.

CC has enough bikey stuff to give it a two wheeled core around which everything else revolves but avoids being a playground for bike geeks swapping tracknut serial numbers. I like that.

 

[MacB]

Having grasped the essence I hope that it can be tugged to a satisfactory conclusion.

CC has enough bikey stuff to give it a two wheeled core around which everything else revolves but avoids being a playground for bike geeks swapping tracknut serial numbers. I like that.

yep, and more succinctly put than I managed, hence why I think a 'Wiki' style editing function would need to be incorporated. Not a free for all edit but one via mod/s appointed for that section.