Bottom bracket tools and tightening procedure..

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OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
yep, and 2 versions of Octalink :sad:
Don't make it easy, do they? It seems that for Hollowtech cranks there are three different cup sizes - all 16 spline / tooth but one at 44.0mm OD, one at 40.5mm OD and the latest 9x series Ultegra, Dura-Ace and XTR at 39.0mm OD. Shimano make socket-type tools to suit all three and composite inserts for the largest to suit the two smaller sizes.

I'm thinking I might go with the larger tool (Shimano or otherwise) and an adaptor (mine is the 40.5mm variant) as this gives a certain amount of versatility in future and the composite should be kinder to the finish on the BB cup. The larger socket will also fit the 44mm Hambini BB; which looks fantastically engineered (self-aligning within limits with larger, high quality, replaceable bearings) but it's the fat end of £250 and I'm not sure I could justify that tbh :blink:
 

davidphilips

Veteran
Location
Onabike
What i have started doing when any of my bikes with hollow tech is buy replacement bearings the 71805 (7805) LLB Angular Contact - ABEC 5 Enduro.
First class bearings and an upgrade, what i have found bit more work, 2 replacement bearings cost similar to a new bottom bracket but never worn any of the better bearings out.
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
What i have started doing when any of my bikes with hollow tech is buy replacement bearings the 71805 (7805) LLB Angular Contact - ABEC 5 Enduro.
First class bearings and an upgrade, what i have found bit more work, 2 replacement bearings cost similar to a new bottom bracket but never worn any of the better bearings out.
Thanks - how do you find their fit though, as they're 1mm wider than the standard items; are they not?

Sounds like a decent way to go if I do have to replace anything - nowt to lose if similar money to what I'd be spending on a complete new unit anyway.
 

davidphilips

Veteran
Location
Onabike
Thanks - how do you find their fit though, as they're 1mm wider than the standard items; are they not?

Sounds like a decent way to go if I do have to replace anything - nowt to lose if similar money to what I'd be spending on a complete new unit anyway.
Bit of a fiddle but not hard just means filing down ridge from outer plastic dust shield/washer, there are cheaper 7805 bearings on Ebay (about half the price) tbh they are perhaps better than the shimano bearings but only my view i just want to fit and forget about them so pay the extra get a good quality bearing fit it once.
Know lots of cyclists that buy hope etc, big outlay for a BB, but again only my view i use shimano tiagra find they last ok (again only my view but last as long as 105 or ultegra) but when worn fit a 7805 good thing about these bearings is they have a rubber seal that shimano dont so perhaps keeps water etc out?
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Bit of a fiddle but not hard just means filing down ridge from outer plastic dust shield/washer, there are cheaper 7805 bearings on Ebay (about half the price) tbh they are perhaps better than the shimano bearings but only my view i just want to fit and forget about them so pay the extra get a good quality bearing fit it once.
Know lots of cyclists that buy hope etc, big outlay for a BB, but again only my view i use shimano tiagra find they last ok (again only my view but last as long as 105 or ultegra) but when worn fit a 7805 good thing about these bearings is they have a rubber seal that shimano dont so perhaps keeps water etc out?
Thanks - sounds good. Again if this does turn out to be failed bearings I have little to lose in replacing them, providing I can get the old ones out. Doesn't seem like much of an issue to mod the dust shields. Totally agree about the quality and I think there's a hell of a lot of money made in the bike industry through people being up-sold stuff because it's "better" when really the gains are absolutely minimal..
 

davidphilips

Veteran
Location
Onabike
Sorry forgot to mention anyone fitting these bearings please remember that they are angular contact bearings and as such are sided so make sure to fit them with the right way (can see the difference if you look close the outside edge has a slightly thicker inside edge to the inner bearing and the seal seems slightly thinner)
 
Location
London
One of the nice things about HT2 is the cheapness of even XT/Ultegra quality cups. How long do the alloy spindles last, though, since they are no longer a service item?

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13076474/broken-crankset-spindle-man-down
Cripes.
Square taper looks ever more attractive.
(I have a bike with HT2 but it's very low mileage so haven't done much with it - I have a similar square taper crankset on standby if I encounter issues or just end up thinking "bugger it, I can't be bothered".
I remain mighty dubious about benefits of the things anyway.
 

faster

Über Member
Bit of a fiddle but not hard just means filing down ridge from outer plastic dust shield/washer, there are cheaper 7805 bearings on Ebay (about half the price) tbh they are perhaps better than the shimano bearings but only my view i just want to fit and forget about them so pay the extra get a good quality bearing fit it once.
Know lots of cyclists that buy hope etc, big outlay for a BB, but again only my view i use shimano tiagra find they last ok (again only my view but last as long as 105 or ultegra) but when worn fit a 7805 good thing about these bearings is they have a rubber seal that shimano dont so perhaps keeps water etc out?

Whilst I admire the ingenuity that has gone into this I don't think it's a great idea, but I'm willing to be proved otherwise.

You say in your post that Shimano don't have a rubber seal, which for a start is not true - they do have a seal.

The seal in a Shimano HT2 bottom bracket seems to work really well, and is something that I don't think can be replicated using generic off the shelf bearings. It's not a bearing seal in the traditional sense, which seals between the inner and outer races (indeed, looking at the bearing/seal on its own, there is a great big gap between the seal and the inner race), but between the face of the bearing and the rear side of the plastic/'top hat' washer.

This has a big advantage over a conventional sealed bearing in that not only does it keep water out of the bearing, but also out of the interface between the spindle and inner race of the bearing.

I would think that in your set up, there exists a risk (small in fresh water, much bigger if ridden in winter salt) that the spindle of the crankset may become corroded, potentially resulting in the scenario outlined in Rogerzilla's post above or a need to regularly replace the often very expensive crankset.

Rogerzilla said in his post that the spindles are aluminium. Some definitely are (I have one that is!), but most are steel.

Also, why the need for angular contact bearings? I can't imagine that these bearings see significant thrust loads unless they are installed (incorrectly in my opinion) with significant preload applied using the plastic tool.
 

cheys03

Veteran
Whizzing all the way back to the original post... I have the spanner you linked
https://www.parktool.com/product/bottom-bracket-tool-bbt-9 with https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m13b0s72p4609/SHIMANO-Shimano-TL-FC25-Bottom-Bracket-adaptor-tool

this gives the torque tool and spanner with plastic/nylon contact, so doesn’t mark the bottom bracket whatsoever. This combo was by accident for me, but looking back it’s been great.

BB has lasted well in my CDF, not replaced it yet. Greasing the BB cups and reinstalling tightly in the frame cured all noise 😎
... for now
 

davidphilips

Veteran
Location
Onabike
Hi faster, you may be right but i only give my view on what i do and experience, nothing on lab tests etc.

Shimano dont have a rubber seal yes they do have a seal (Not rubber and part of the bearing) and if doing the modification its refitted so Bottom bracket then has 2 seals.

Theres an advantage to the shimano set up (no rubber seal) in that its fairly easy to repack with grease, only my view again but think bearings that are kept clean free from water dirt and well lubricated last very well and a rubber seal as part of the bearing seems a good idea?

Again only my view that angular contact are a better bearing in BBs due to constant side force with cadence and any one replacing bearing can buy radial bearings even buy radical without the extra rubber seal or buy the 6mm and save a bit of work.

Also angular contact may not be the best if you are racing where every fraction of a watt matters as they do use a slight bit more power, none that i can notice same with the extra seal, but like the old question whats the best colour for a bike? Perhaps just the one you like yourself ?

Again only my views and am happy with the angular bearings but am sure theres some one that will use them and say otherwise.
 

faster

Über Member
Hi faster, you may be right but i only give my view on what i do and experience, nothing on lab tests etc.

Shimano dont have a rubber seal yes they do have a seal (Not rubber and part of the bearing) and if doing the modification its refitted so Bottom bracket then has 2 seals.

Theres an advantage to the shimano set up (no rubber seal) in that its fairly easy to repack with grease, only my view again but think bearings that are kept clean free from water dirt and well lubricated last very well and a rubber seal as part of the bearing seems a good idea?

Again only my view that angular contact are a better bearing in BBs due to constant side force with cadence and any one replacing bearing can buy radial bearings even buy radical without the extra rubber seal or buy the 6mm and save a bit of work.

Also angular contact may not be the best if you are racing where every fraction of a watt matters as they do use a slight bit more power, none that i can notice same with the extra seal, but like the old question whats the best colour for a bike? Perhaps just the one you like yourself ?

Again only my views and am happy with the angular bearings but am sure theres some one that will use them and say otherwise.

That's interesting - maybe they've changed the design.

I've only ever taken one apart, but that one has a rubber seal. I've actually still got the remains of it and went to the garage to check before I made my last post.
 

davidphilips

Veteran
Location
Onabike
Am sure there are many different seals on shimano and tbh i only buy the cheaper tiagra (mainly because i am going to fit replacement bearings when worn) so i am no expert.
Happy cycling and always like some one to have different views as it makes me rethink my views, ttfn
 

Lookrider

Senior Member
Whizzing all the way back to the original post... I have the spanner you linked
https://www.parktool.com/product/bottom-bracket-tool-bbt-9 with https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m13b0s72p4609/SHIMANO-Shimano-TL-FC25-Bottom-Bracket-adaptor-tool

this gives the torque tool and spanner with plastic/nylon contact, so doesn’t mark the bottom bracket whatsoever. This combo was by accident for me, but looking back it’s been great.

BB has lasted well in my CDF, not replaced it yet. Greasing the BB cups and reinstalling tightly in the frame cured all noise 😎
... for now


Can you be a little more specific so I can understand this as I too need a wrench or socket
So is the plastic coating on the face of spa cycles shimano adaptor and not on the park wrench

Thanks cheys
 
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