Yellow Fang
Legendary Member
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I was reading a leaflet about it in a cafe recently. It's one of these alternative remedies, but it sounded quite interesting. Has anyone tried it or have any informed opinions on it?
Bowen Technique
- Thread starter Yellow Fang
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Chutzpah
Über Member
- Location
- Somerset, UK
I need to make two disclaimers first.
1) My mother-in-law is a "trained" complementary therapist, specialising in Bowen
2) I'm very anti-alternative med. I go along the lines of "you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine"
Yeah, as you can guess Christmas dinner can be interesting.....
As far as I've ever found, there is no credible evidence at all that it works. Any research that proponents put forward often has huge methodological flaws.
At most it's a pleasant massage.
1) My mother-in-law is a "trained" complementary therapist, specialising in Bowen
2) I'm very anti-alternative med. I go along the lines of "you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine"
Yeah, as you can guess Christmas dinner can be interesting.....
As far as I've ever found, there is no credible evidence at all that it works. Any research that proponents put forward often has huge methodological flaws.
At most it's a pleasant massage.
Gerry Attrick
Lincolnshire Mountain Rescue Consultant
I have visited a practitioner of the Bowen technique on three occasions.
A few years back, I injured my shoulder whilst performing a physical activity. After taking the usually prescribed painkillers, no improvement was evident, so on the recommendation of a friend, I visited a Bowen type chap. He explained the treatment he would provide and asked me very detailed questions about my general health. He then asked me to lie on a couch and proceeded to perform manipulative movements on my left knee. During the half hour treatment, he left the room for short periods, leaving me a glass of water to drink.
I confess I asked myself a number of times what I was doing here. On his return, he continued the manipulation. He said that another couple of treatments would sort out my shoulder and asked me to return for the following two weeks. He also said that on return home, I may feel a little out of sorts, but the feeling would pass in a few minutes.
My immediate reaction was I thought I'd been well and truly had.......until an hour or so after arriving home, I felt very tired, nauseous and generally debilitated. I felt no improvement in my shoulder for several days. Just before I was due to return to receive the second treatment, my shoulder felt considerably more relaxed. If it had not done so, I know I would have written the guy off as a sharlatan, but I went back.
To cut to the chase, after the three treatments, my shoulder was 100% and remains so after several years.
The "and also" story to this is that I recommende a friend to go for the treatment as she had suffered excruciating sciatica for a number of years which neither GP or specialist had been able to sort out. On one occasion when I visited her, she was in tears because of the pain. She was completely sorted after six treatments with the Bowen technique.
Don't dismiss it until you've tried it.
A few years back, I injured my shoulder whilst performing a physical activity. After taking the usually prescribed painkillers, no improvement was evident, so on the recommendation of a friend, I visited a Bowen type chap. He explained the treatment he would provide and asked me very detailed questions about my general health. He then asked me to lie on a couch and proceeded to perform manipulative movements on my left knee. During the half hour treatment, he left the room for short periods, leaving me a glass of water to drink.
I confess I asked myself a number of times what I was doing here. On his return, he continued the manipulation. He said that another couple of treatments would sort out my shoulder and asked me to return for the following two weeks. He also said that on return home, I may feel a little out of sorts, but the feeling would pass in a few minutes.
My immediate reaction was I thought I'd been well and truly had.......until an hour or so after arriving home, I felt very tired, nauseous and generally debilitated. I felt no improvement in my shoulder for several days. Just before I was due to return to receive the second treatment, my shoulder felt considerably more relaxed. If it had not done so, I know I would have written the guy off as a sharlatan, but I went back.
To cut to the chase, after the three treatments, my shoulder was 100% and remains so after several years.
The "and also" story to this is that I recommende a friend to go for the treatment as she had suffered excruciating sciatica for a number of years which neither GP or specialist had been able to sort out. On one occasion when I visited her, she was in tears because of the pain. She was completely sorted after six treatments with the Bowen technique.
Don't dismiss it until you've tried it.
Ravenbait
Someone's imaginary friend
- Location
- The Seventh Level of Hell
He manipulated your knee to treat your shoulder?
Sam
Sam
Gerry Attrick
Lincolnshire Mountain Rescue Consultant
He sure did. At the time it did nothing to convince me he was above board.
Chutzpah
Über Member
- Location
- Somerset, UK
I know it's dangerous territory when you start questioning the benefit somebody received from treatment they had, but over the course of a couple of weeks things can get better. The scientific phrase is regression to the mean.
No real difference to taking Lemsip for a cold. Take it or not, you simply get over it eventually. Aside from being a warm soothing drink, it doesn't actively do anything to 'treat' your illness.
As for treating something that has been there for a while, studies have been done that the in-depth 'consultation' you get from many alternative therapists can do wonders. They have time to sit you down and ask detailed questions about your health (in effect a counselling session), something that many GPs and consultants can't do, or people don't feel comfortable receiving treatment in a clinical setting. Psychologically it's quite powerful.
Of course, if your friend received benefit, that's great. I will be frank with you and state that I believe any improvement was due to the placebo effect, but that in itself is an amazing thing that has some fascinating research done into it and can actually cause marked improvement in people.
Did you know that if I gave you two identical paracetamol capsules, but placed one in a 'Tesco Value' packaging and one in much flashier packaging (e.g. Nurofen) you are more likely to report an improvement from taking the flashier one?
Or that one colour of sugar pills can work better than a different colour sugar pill?
Or that people with pacemakers report an improvement after having one fitted....... but before it's switched on?
It's a fascinating, fascinating thing.
No real difference to taking Lemsip for a cold. Take it or not, you simply get over it eventually. Aside from being a warm soothing drink, it doesn't actively do anything to 'treat' your illness.
As for treating something that has been there for a while, studies have been done that the in-depth 'consultation' you get from many alternative therapists can do wonders. They have time to sit you down and ask detailed questions about your health (in effect a counselling session), something that many GPs and consultants can't do, or people don't feel comfortable receiving treatment in a clinical setting. Psychologically it's quite powerful.
Of course, if your friend received benefit, that's great. I will be frank with you and state that I believe any improvement was due to the placebo effect, but that in itself is an amazing thing that has some fascinating research done into it and can actually cause marked improvement in people.
Did you know that if I gave you two identical paracetamol capsules, but placed one in a 'Tesco Value' packaging and one in much flashier packaging (e.g. Nurofen) you are more likely to report an improvement from taking the flashier one?
Or that one colour of sugar pills can work better than a different colour sugar pill?
Or that people with pacemakers report an improvement after having one fitted....... but before it's switched on?
It's a fascinating, fascinating thing.
Gerry Attrick
Lincolnshire Mountain Rescue Consultant
I'm well acquainted with the placebo effect. The effect can be just as beneficial when a patient visits a qualified doctor. What I can't explain is why my problem, and that of my friend, were both resolved after visits to a Bowen practitioner when weeks of medical treatment failed.
Frankly, I don't care whether others consider the technique as mere mumbo jumbo, the fact that it worked is more than satisfaction to me and my friend. As I said in my reply to the OP, don't knock it until you have tried it.
Frankly, I don't care whether others consider the technique as mere mumbo jumbo, the fact that it worked is more than satisfaction to me and my friend. As I said in my reply to the OP, don't knock it until you have tried it.
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
There's a place in Hebden Bridge that offers 'No Hands' massage!
No, that doesn't mean they massage all parts of the body except for your hands! It means they use their forearms, elbows, knees and lord knows what else to do the massaging.
Call me old-fashioned, but I wouldn't pay to be elbowed or kneed. I suppose I shouldn't knock what I haven't tried, but I know I don't fancy it...
No, that doesn't mean they massage all parts of the body except for your hands! It means they use their forearms, elbows, knees and lord knows what else to do the massaging.
Call me old-fashioned, but I wouldn't pay to be elbowed or kneed. I suppose I shouldn't knock what I haven't tried, but I know I don't fancy it...
benborp
Guru
- Location
- further from Penge
I have a friend that trained as a Bowen therapist using me as an interesting case to practice on as I've received a couple of serious injuries over the years that have changed my body shape and then during the course of her training been rectified with surgery. I found Bowen very useful as a tool to make me aware of what my body was doing to compensate for the injuries and what I could do day to day to maintain my form (The anatomical knowledge she had to gain through her training was impressive). The treatments helped me feel better as I felt straighter, more aligned afterwards which was important to me, but then my work at the time involved accommodating various theories about physical movement which would seem even more bonkers than any alternative therapy. Mechanically, I found it very useful.
OP
OP
Yellow Fang
Legendary Member
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- Reading
V. interesting. I am inclined to believe there's something in it. The leaflet I was reading listed a number of case histories. One of them was a young girl who was making involuntary, jerky movements with her arm; another was an old woman with a 'muzzy' head. I was thinking this a female thing; then on the next page it mentioned some chap who used it to treat a running injury (of great interest to me). Some alternative therapies seem like cobblers, but others, like acupuncture for example, have been accepted as useful. I suppose, in the dark ages, those monks with their herbal medicines didn't know why their treatments worked, just that some did. Doctors were using treatments long before they knew why they worked. One thing that bothered me in the leaflet was the word 'holistic'. Normally this screams 'HIPPY' to me. I don't think I'd have got very far taking an holistic approach to fixing my software bugs, but with joints and muscles I think it's a bit different. Pain in one area of the body can be referred to another. An injury or imbalance in one part of the body can lead to chronic injuries in other parts of the body. Also, some parts of the body, e.g. achilles tendon, have poor blood flow. A treatment involving massage seems plausible.
Fiona N
Veteran
I have mixed feelings about Bowen partly because a good friend makes a living as a Bowen therapist and certainly has many satisfied customers. He gives me a really hard time for going for conventional physio (for specific injuries) and sports massages (general wear 'n' tear) but I think the thing is it works for some and not for others. In particular it works for people with chronic conditions which haven't responded to conventional physio.
Now I have a hypothesis (possibly putting a bit too strongly) that the Bowen - which is supposed to work directly on the nerves not the muscles or ligaments - actually retrains the brain pain response which develops with a chronic injury. With many people who have long term injury problems which haven't responded to physio, the problem is that pain is felt long after the initial injury should have healed. The patient interprets this as failure of the treatment although the function of the affected limb etc. could by fully restored but they're still bothered by 'pain'. Unfortunately it's known (I have some refs somewhere) that some people develop anomalous pain response - i.e. become habituated to feeling pain - much more easily than others. And these people are the ones likely to complain of ongoing problems even when functionally there aren't any. You may say - ah but it's not just pain I have it's stiffness etc. But that's the thing, if your body 'thinks' there's a problem in an area - indicated by the 'pain', the muscles around that area try to take up the strain resulting in stiffness and soreness which is a response to the phantom pain. So anything which breaks this cycle can appear to have solved the problem - which is has, it's just that it hasn't miraculously healed a sore joint, it's rewired a bit of your brain.
Hope that makes sense...
Now I have a hypothesis (possibly putting a bit too strongly) that the Bowen - which is supposed to work directly on the nerves not the muscles or ligaments - actually retrains the brain pain response which develops with a chronic injury. With many people who have long term injury problems which haven't responded to physio, the problem is that pain is felt long after the initial injury should have healed. The patient interprets this as failure of the treatment although the function of the affected limb etc. could by fully restored but they're still bothered by 'pain'. Unfortunately it's known (I have some refs somewhere) that some people develop anomalous pain response - i.e. become habituated to feeling pain - much more easily than others. And these people are the ones likely to complain of ongoing problems even when functionally there aren't any. You may say - ah but it's not just pain I have it's stiffness etc. But that's the thing, if your body 'thinks' there's a problem in an area - indicated by the 'pain', the muscles around that area try to take up the strain resulting in stiffness and soreness which is a response to the phantom pain. So anything which breaks this cycle can appear to have solved the problem - which is has, it's just that it hasn't miraculously healed a sore joint, it's rewired a bit of your brain.
Hope that makes sense...
As far as I can see, its' too damned difficult to make a machine which does it. So Bowen technique practicioners are in a 'job for life'.
My coach, when I raced, had a 'magic sponge'. He nicked it off the Birmingham City physio at their training ground in Damson Lane.
My Mom, a very keen cyclist, did this technique without knowing. Or at least I don't know whether she did or not, she didn't tell me. When I was very small and fell off my bike, she would rest her hand very gently on my forehead and the pain would miraculously dissappear.
I used to do this with my sons when they were babies to get them to sleep at night. It worked.
My coach, when I raced, had a 'magic sponge'. He nicked it off the Birmingham City physio at their training ground in Damson Lane.
My Mom, a very keen cyclist, did this technique without knowing. Or at least I don't know whether she did or not, she didn't tell me. When I was very small and fell off my bike, she would rest her hand very gently on my forehead and the pain would miraculously dissappear.
I used to do this with my sons when they were babies to get them to sleep at night. It worked.
I've used pies to achieve a similar outcome.
