Box junction fines

[ufkacbln]

I read that box junctions in London raise £18million, thats quite staggering. I wonder where the money goes and if everyone simply refused to pay these fines what would happen. As it must be tens of thousands who get caught out there would need to be a lot of debt collectors to go knocking on doors seizing goods and towing vehicles away if people refused to pay up.. This is a form of poll tax and just a revenue raising stunt and its time people stood up and said enough is enough.

.... or simply obeyed the rules?

 

[ufkacbln]

what is a box junction?

It is a big bright yellow box that you only enter if your exit is free.

It means that the traffic along one element of a crossroads is not prevented from crossingthe junction by inconsiderate muppets who stop nose to tail across th ejunction

Unfortunately there are inconsiderate muppets who believe they have aright to obstruct the junction for otherroad users and still stop nose to tail across the junction

They then get fined for being inconsiderate muppets

They then bleat how it is unfair and naughty for someone to censure their stuoidity, bad manners and inconsiderate driving

 

[stephec]

We all have the highway code. The Highway Code does not impose a fine for stopping in a box junction.

Now if park on a road I can see the road restrictions in a sign or if I park in a council car park I can see they impose a fine if I don't pay a parking fee. Congestion charge area is well signed and some effort is made to make drivers aware of it.

So then how do I know that if I happen to be in some area where the local authority impose such fines? If I am not made aware of their special rule how am I to know to be liable?

Is it not like using a public loo and then on the way out someone says "that will be £5" - pay or we take you to court.

Does the highway code not advise you on the correct use of a box junction?

Would you obey the highway code regarding this at all times, or only if you thought there was a chance you might get fined for not doing?

 

[Fnaar]

As Miss Goodbody will tell you, I never enter a box unless the way out is clear.

 

[stephec]

As Miss Goodbody will tell you, I never enter a box unless the way out is clear.

What if somebody's trying to go in nose to tail behind you?

 

[Paulus]

What if somebody's trying to go in nose to tail behind you?

 

[Cyclopathic]

Vampire: No, this is some kind of misunderstanding! I'm not a vampire! I'm a driving instructor! From Johannesburg!
Vyvyan: A driving instructer from Johannesburg? Prove it!
Vampire: How?
Vyvyan: Okay, what should you never do in a box junction?
Vampire: In a box junction you should never enter it unless your exit is clear!
Vyvyan: Ah, true. Okay, what's the procedure for the approach of a humpback bridge?
Vampire: Approaching a humpback bridge, you should slow down and check in both rear-view mirrors. If no-one is behind you you should RIP OUT A VIRGIN'S THROAT AND-
Vyvyan: Ah-ha! Ah-ha! Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha! Driving instructor my bottom! You're a vampire and there's no denying it!
Vampire: Oh Outspan!

 

[Over The Hill]

Does the highway code not advise you on the correct use of a box junction?

Would you obey the highway code regarding this at all times, or only if you thought there was a chance you might get fined for not doing?

Personally I would obey the highway code. I am not disputing that it is wrong to use a box junction incorrectly but just questioning a local authority's ability to impose a fine on the roads in their area for breaches of the highway code when not making the driver aware of such fine.
The driving "default" position is the highway code, beyond that surely they need to give notice of a rule.

If it is a deterrent then is should be clearly marked at the junction. If it is not shown at the junction that you will be fined then how can it deter?

 

[ufkacbln]

What if somebody's trying to go in nose to tail behind you?

Or even worse you try to make an entry and fin someone else is obstructing the entrance

 

[Drago]

Do people really need a sign to remind them that they risk sanctions if they break the law?

 

[stephec]

Personally I would obey the highway code. I am not disputing that it is wrong to use a box junction incorrectly but just questioning a local authority's ability to impose a fine on the roads in their area for breaches of the highway code when not making the driver aware of such fine.
The driving "default" position is the highway code, beyond that surely they need to give notice of a rule.

If it is a deterrent then is should be clearly marked at the junction. If it is not shown at the junction that you will be fined then how can it deter?

It's obviously not a deterrent.

It's there to make money out of selfish people who think the law doesn't apply to them.

I think in an earlier post someone called it a tax on the stupid.

 

[Trevor_P]

Imagine what it's like for professional drivers then. In order to clear a box junction, my wagon requires 55 ft 6 of space the other side + a little bit for a gap. If it's busy, you leave that kind of space and the numpty in the car to your right just pulls into it without any consideration. That happens about 20% of the time. So you always have to assess the car(s) to your right (and left in some cases) to see if they are going to steal your space. Last year I started to cross in New Cross south London and the car to my right stole my space, carving me up in the process. The result? I get a £65 fine and because the photos are partly obscured by the size of my wagon, I don't get any mitigation. Stupid money grabbing TFL Camera's. It's really annoying because I always obey box junctions regardless of whether there are cameras or not.

 

[Trevor_P]

Someone cuts you up and you complain about the money grabbing camera?

The poor driving I can put up with. I have to every day. But to pay a fine when someone else is responsible, with no recourse is just stupid.

 

[Piemaster]

Personally I would obey the highway code. I am not disputing that it is wrong to use a box junction incorrectly but just questioning a local authority's ability to impose a fine on the roads in their area for breaches of the highway code when not making the driver aware of such fine.
The driving "default" position is the highway code, beyond that surely they need to give notice of a rule.

If it is a deterrent then is should be clearly marked at the junction. If it is not shown at the junction that you will be fined then how can it deter?

MUST NOT is in the HC in the use of box junctions (guide here). They are not there as a deterrent, and the HC makes it quite clear on the use of them. They aren't a new thing, I remember this from when I started driving, err, quite along time ago.


LA appease drivers anyway by putting up signs warning of the impending appearance of speed cameras and in some places the use of cameras at junctions where there is persistent red light jumping. Are even more 'Watch out for something that may catch you rule breaking' notices really needed?

 

[Drago]

It's like listening to a shoplifter moaning that there were no signs warning him that he might get caught and punished. If you're dense enough that you don't understand the consequences of your actions then you shouldn't be allowed out in public.