Box junction fines

[GrasB]

That reminds me of the scheme in some semi-pedestrianised areas where they remove all road markings and just let pedestrians and vehicles mingle. The idea is that it removes the sense of entitlement and everybody just looks out for each other and shares the space properly. No idea if it works!

I get a much higher hit % on what someone's going to be doing than their indication & usually I call it earlier too (this is where videoed in-car commentated drives come into their own)

 

[ufkacbln]

Sorry but when people blindly apply or worse still blindly conform to a rule without looking at the bigger picture something in me rather dies.

So you would sit in the way of an ambulance rather than pull over onto a clear pavement to let it through?

This is really a red herring

If you are being reasonable and pull across a line, or on to a pavement to let an Ambulance or Police Vehicle through, then there will be no action

Even if you are caught on a red light camera or similar it will be cancelled as they will also have the emergency vehicle

 

[Drago]

There's no exemption in law for people breaching red lights etc to allow emergency vehicles through. It's discretionary as to whether they pursue it or not - some areas let it drop, some dont.

 

[winjim]

I get a much higher hit % on what someone's going to be doing than their indication & usually I call it earlier too (this is where videoed in-car commentated drives come into their own)

A frequently heard phrase in our car is "See, I knew s/he was going to do that!"

 

[BrynCP]

Just becuase they do it doesn't mean they should be doing it

Sorry I didn't mean they should. Was just saying you can't predict what people will do in what appears to be a blue light panic!

 

[Over The Hill]

This is really a red herring

If you are being reasonable and pull across a line, or on to a pavement to let an Ambulance or Police Vehicle through, then there will be no action

Even if you are caught on a red light camera or similar it will be cancelled as they will also have the emergency vehicle

As the post below yours states there is no exception to the rules for allowing emergency vehicles to pass.
Now I would be quite happy pulling on the pavement right under the nose of a policeman to allow an ambulance past as I would know he would use his discretion in the circumstances.
A similar action that was policed by an automatic camera will not exercise such discretion. I am then left to fight the matter in the courts which we all know is not worth the time and effort.

None of you who are happy with this system have yet come back and said that you would be OK getting such fine if you were the driver of the Renault in the picture. It can quite legitimately be fined.

 

[Over The Hill]

I can't see the bit in law that says that.

( (2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person -

(a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and

(b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.)
I have a right to enter the box because I'm turning right, I have a right to stop there because of oncoming traffic. The fact that 2 chumps came along afterwards, the first by driving into the box junction and blocking the nearside lane and the second (the oncoming vehicle for which I had stopped) coming to a halt directly in front of me, are factors I couldn't have been expected to anticipate.

You are looking in the wrong place.
The rule allowing you into the box is ONLY concerned with you being allowed to enter the box in your lane prior to the right turn manoeuvre. Once you are there the turn is just based on usual rules re turning right - I have not looked them up but basically you need a space in oncoming traffic to be able to pass right over the road. It is not accepted for you to turn right across oncoming traffic and sit in their road and block their path in any event - box junction or not. The rule is clear for all junctions not just a box junction so that is why it is not specified in the box junction rules. You wait for a safe gap and then clear the junction. It is never accepted to pull across a junction as the black Honda car has done box junction or not.

I assume you don't drive.

 

[Archie_tect]

Harsh, but to the letter of the law. The space may have looked long enough though- I've certainly misjudged the car length space to clear a box junction before.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

You are looking in the wrong place.
The rule allowing you into the box is ONLY concerned with you being allowed to enter the box in your lane prior to the right turn manoeuvre. Once you are there the turn is just based on usual rules re turning right - I have not looked them up but basically you need a space in oncoming traffic to be able to pass right over the road. It is not accepted for you to turn right across oncoming traffic and sit in their road and block their path in any event - box junction or not. The rule is clear for all junctions not just a box junction so that is why it is not specified in the box junction rules. You wait for a safe gap and then clear the junction. It is never accepted to pull across a junction as the black Honda car has done box junction or not.

I assume you don't drive.

Which bit of the law covers that? You appear to be adding a specific interpretation.

And yes, I do drive. But I drive in London where a pragmatic approach to road use is necessary if anybody wants to get anywhere.

 

[GrasB]

Harsh, but to the letter of the law. The space may have looked long enough though- I've certainly misjudged the car length space to clear a box junction before.

I've done this a few times now with the new car, being well over 0.75m longer than the longer of the two cars I'd been driving for several months before. But I wouldn't be screaming from the roof tops about it being unfair If I got a fine. It was my misjudgement after all.

 

[ufkacbln]

As the post below yours states there is no exception to the rules for allowing emergency vehicles to pass.
Now I would be quite happy pulling on the pavement right under the nose of a policeman to allow an ambulance past as I would know he would use his discretion in the circumstances.
A similar action that was policed by an automatic camera will not exercise such discretion. I am then left to fight the matter in the courts which we all know is not worth the time and effort.

None of you who are happy with this system have yet come back and said that you would be OK getting such fine if you were the driver of the Renault in the picture. It can quite legitimately be fined.

Happened to us.

Crossed a traffic light and pulled to side to allow an Ambulance through.

Quick letter stating what had happened and the matter was dropped.

No fight, no courts, no hassle at all

 

[GrasB]

Happened to us.

Crossed a traffic light and pulled to side to allow an Ambulance through.

Quick letter stating what had happened and the matter was dropped.

No fight, no courts, no hassle at all

^^ This, you don't have to simply pay up. You can contest the case & at that point automation stops. From the point of contest on you'll be dealt with by people who are willing to show judgment. The early payment system helps keep the people who know they were in the wrong to start with trying to contest on the narrow off-chance they'll wing it.

 

[Dan B]

I am curious whether, given that the offence is of stopping in a box junction, a legal strategy on finding that you're trapped in it would be to drive very slowly forwards and backwards until the exit is clear. As long as you're moving, presumably you're OK

There might be some more general offence of "driving like a tit" which you would have contravened, but presumably the civil enforcement folk who enforce box junctions wouldn't have the power to do you for it.

 

[Archie_tect]

Of course you could always drive into the yellow box indicating right, stop as required in the face of oncoming traffic, wait until the lights change while the traffic clears in front of you and change your mind about turning right at all and go straight on instead....

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Top Tip: buy a black car and paint yellow box markings on it. Invisibility!

GC