Bradley Wiggins calls for safer cycling laws and compulsory helmets

[Red Light]

Any campaign in favour of adult helmet compulsion will founder on its inability to prove, objectively, using existing products and standards, that helmets make a significant difference.

You've not heard of Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Hungary, Mexico, Spain.......then?

 

[NotthatJasonKenny]

Out of interest, would all those who are against helmets wear one if a new design was brought out, which, without a doubt would save you from injury in the event of a fall?

 

[Red Light]

Israel only has partial compulsion (under 18, on interurban roads and during races). Mexico repealed its law in 2010. Hungary doesn't have a mandatory helmet law (it has a mandatory hi-viz law in rural areas and during periods of reduced visibility).

To be fair, the mandatory helmet law is fairly widely ignored in the last four countries you mention. I can't actually recall seeing a Spanish cyclist in a helmet (other than the be-Lycraed club riders). I've cycled in Spain sans helmet and it's never been an issue. I've never seen anyone Bicing in Barcelona with a helmet...

Its irrelevant whether they're observed or enforced or subsequently repealed. They all give lie to Greg's claim that all attempts to introduce such a law will founder.

 

[Kizibu]

Well yes, that's why I specifically used the word "fatalities" in the post you first responded to! And I was also specifically referring to London as well.


I'd agree that if you look at KSIs the proportion drops, not surprisingly. But I'm not sure that gets us very far.

NB, if you are referring to Table 13 in the TfL report I think you may have double counted the number of accidents, because this table is for the number of vehicles, so in an accident in which a cyclist is hit by a lorry or car there are two vehicles, the bicycle and the lorry or car for each fatality. .....
TfL certainly believes heavy vehicles are over-represented in cycle accidents in London, which is why they are funding research and industry initiatives to do something about it.

Yes Table 13. Thank you for the correction Jonesy. I was wrong. I'm probably even less safe on a statistic than in the saddle...

The thousands of serious cycling injuries seem to me as pertinent to the debate on helmets as the few hundred fatalities. Your point about not helping in HGV fatalities may be correct. But even if a cycling helmet had never ever averted a fatality that would not necessarily be an argument for not wearing one if they were effective in reducing the seriousness of some injuries ... especially since you are 20-30 times more likely to be injured than killed. Please note I say if. I'm not sure I've seen conclusive evidence either way on the balance of helmet risks and benefits. For what its worth, I wear one but don't mind if others don't.

 

[Red Light]

Out of interest, would all those who are against helmets wear one if a new design was brought out, which, without a doubt would save you from injury in the event of a fall?

I wear one of those. It works just as well as a traditional helmet safety wise but feels like riding without one. And its completely invisible so no-one ever knows you're wearing on

 

[dellzeqq]

Out of interest, would all those who are against helmets wear one if a new design was brought out, which, without a doubt would save you from injury in the event of a fall?

who's against helmets? I think people are against compulsion. If you want to wear a helmet that's fine by me.

 

[StuartG]

You've not heard of Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Hungary, Mexico, Spain.......then?

Why yes - and an interesting set of countries which may have more in common than just helmet laws. Thoughts like authoritarian, right wing, unobjective ... yes the UK shares some of these elements but hopefully to a lesser degree.

 

[dellzeqq]

You've not heard of Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Hungary, Mexico, Spain.......then?

Spain's an odd one. We bought £9.99 helmets from Decathlon and tied them to the handlebars. Not one of the police officers we spoke to seemed to mind.

I do genuinely think that we are a long, long way from compulsion in this country. The speed with which politicians respond to calls for compulsion suggests that they don't feel under any pressure at all.

 

[Red Light]

It's pretty difficult to enforce a law that doesn't exist (as in the case in Hungary)...

And it's clear that Mexico's legislation did founder after introduction, as it simply was not enforceable.

Only one of the countries I mentioned needs to have a helmet law to prove the point. The rest is just nickpicking of no relevance.

Edit: Hungary requires you to wear a helmet if riding over 50kph but not if you keep under 40kph. Not sure whether its law or their equivalent of the HIghway Code

 

[Wobblers]

Out of interest, would all those who are against helmets wear one if a new design was brought out, which, without a doubt would save you from injury in the event of a fall?

The point, which your missing here, is about compulsion. To my knowledge (and admittedly I haven't looked at the statistics of every country that has enforced helmet wearing) all countries that I know of which have mandated compulsary helmet wearing have all seen cycling rates fall more than KSI rates. In other words helmet compulsion increases the risks to cyclists. It's very clear indeed: if you want a safe environment to cycle in, it's in your interests to oppose mandatory helmet wearing.

For the record, if such a helmet were ever produced, I would be inclined to wear it. With one caveat: it must not induce risk compensation in motorists. I have no wish to encourage those driving large lumps of metal to take more risks with my life. There are only two studies that I know of that look at this phenomena: both show that motorists pass helmetted cyclists more closely than bare-headed cyclists.

 

[StuartG]

Edit: Hungary requires you to wear a helmet if riding over 50kph but not if you keep under 40kph.

That's not completely unsensible. Over 50kph for most cyclists is rare or non-existent. Any fall is going to have a lot of inertia to dissipate which means whichever way you fall then tumbling is likely to include the skull and has more in common with motorcycle crashes than ordinary bicycle incidents. The argument should be much more about whether the current helmets are much good at this speed rather than whether you should wear one.

I don't think most of the anti-compulsionists have a problem with wearing one in obviously hazardous conditions. The problem with compulsion is defining hazardous conditions. 50kph is a crude but simple stab.

BTW what are you supposed to do between 40 & 50kph?

 

[Red Light]

I don't think most of the anti-compulsionists have a problem with wearing one in obviously hazardous conditions. The problem with compulsion is defining hazardous conditions. 50kph is a crude but simple stab.

What's the point of wearing one in "obviously hazardous conditions"? They are not anything to do with the conditions the helmet has been designed to handle. For example at 50kph you are only about ten time over its maximum design limit. You might as well suggest the soldiers wear a t-shirt in Afghanistan to protect them from the hazards of bullets and shrapnel.

 

[ufkacbln]

Out of interest, would all those who are against helmets wear one if a new design was brought out, which, without a doubt would save you from injury in the event of a fall?

Would it also be effective for the groups that actually feature highly in hospital admissions for head injury as well as cyclists?


Would it be more effective than training?

 

[screenman]

Quote from Giovanni Treduci.

" The most common injuries the medical team sees at races are fractured collarbones. Before helmets were made compulsory it was head trauma injuries, my area of expertise.

 

[ufkacbln]

Out of interest, would all those who are against helmets wear one if a new design was brought out, which, without a doubt would save you from injury in the event of a fall?

Is it full face in in compliance with the medical advice of the British Dental Association?