helmets and high viz

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Mo1959

Legendary Member
If this has been posted before, my apologies.

It's an article offering another slant on helmets and High Viz written by Chris Boardman.

Just gave me another slant on the issue.

I think it’s an excellent article. I’ve always thought Chris Boardman talks a lot of sense regarding cycling. Shame government don’t listen and act :sad:
 

dicko

Guru
Location
Derbyshire
It’s alright for CB to ride thro London on their lovely cycle lanes it’s another thing here mixing it with traffic who don’t give a damn about the cyclist. Just look at the picture of the Dutch cyclists they have a great government who understands their need for cheap, healthy transport and are backed up with a very sensible population as unlike here. I shall continue riding with my cycle helmet, high vis, flashing lights and rear view mirror, planning my route to avoid as much traffic as possible. Now in my 77th year I want to continue cycling as safely as possible I’m not for giving up jest yet. Good article by the way Chris.
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
Usually I skip these types of posts as it always ends in a slanging match. I do wear a vis vest, reflective clothing and a helmet. That it what I choose to do and can give plenty of reasons why I do. What any other adult does is totally their concern and not mine.

But Chris Boardman is not a guy who makes quick rash statements about cycle safety and this is an angle I have never seen before.

My question would be why would such a high percentage of riders, stop riding because helmets became compulsory? Is it a fashion statement? They are not expensive and in my experience, they work.

Its a really good article, with a lot of talking points.
 

Slick

Guru
Cracking video, love Utrecht.
 
My question would be why would such a high percentage of riders, stop riding because helmets became compulsory? Is it a fashion statement?

That's a good question. As far as I can work out, it's simply an observed phenomenon that seems to repeat whenever helmets are made compulsory. I've seen a suggestion that some people find helmets uncomfortable or inconvenient, or feel self conscious. Certainly with the amount of times I make short utility trips, having to put on a helmet and any other items like hi-viz would soon become annoying, and I'd soon forget my helmet on a train or something. Casual cyclists without a helmet may not want to buy one if they only ride a couple of times a month, or a year.

I've also seen it suggested that if the government make helmets mandatory, people then assume cycling must be a dangerous way to travel, and are scared off. I don't know to what extent the reasons have been studied though.

I think Boardman's point is important; the risks of cycling are lower than the risks of not exercising, although I realise I live in a region where there are lots of cyclists and fairly good infrastructure.
 
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Slick

Guru
That's a good question. As far as I can work out, it's simply an observed phenomenon that seems to repeat whenever helmets are made compulsory. I've seen a suggestion that some people find helmets uncomfortable or inconvenient, or feel self conscious. Certainly with the amount of times I make short utility trips, having to put on a helmet and any other items like hi-viz would soon become annoying, and I'd soon forget my helmet on a train or something. Casual cyclists without a helmet may not want to buy one if they only ride a couple of times a month, or a year. I

I've also seen it suggested that if the government make helmets mandatory, people then assume cycling must be a dangerous way to travel, and are scared off. I don't know to what extent the reasons have been studied though.

I think Boardman's point is important; the risks of cycling are lower than the risks of not exercising, although I realise I live in a region where there are lots of cyclists and fairly good infrastructure.

For me, it was a much more straightforward decision.

Anyone growing up in the 70's and 80's would never have cycled in a helmet, and I was no different.

So fast forward nearly 30 years, and I thought nothing about wearing a helmet when I returned to cycling.

Whilst commuting, a mate suggested I should consider getting one as it was changed days.

I still remember my response which was, it looks like the wally's (insert your own truth here) who are wearing helmets and I don't feel the need.

His response made me think when he replied that it was the wally's that don't wear them.

I went out and got one and have used one ever since, although I'm under no illusion exactly what protection they offer.

Thinking about it now, I think I carry on wearing one mostly because drivers think I deserve what's coming to me if I don't.
 
OP
OP
Jotheboat

Jotheboat

Well-Known Member
Cracking video, love Utrecht.

I hadn't watched that video before, but yes, it's fascinating.
'Less tan 1% of Dutch cyclists wear a helmet, yet they have the lowest incidence of cycling fatalities.'
It's part of their way of live. He says, 'While cycling they dress for the destination, not the journey.'
I lived in the Netherlands for a couple of years - and it really is cycling heaven. To be honest, while there you take it for granted after a while, and the only real chance of an accident is your own stupidity (like my cycling into a major roadworks hole!).
It's only when you go somewhere else and compare back, that you realize just how good it is.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
It’s alright for CB to ride thro London on their lovely cycle lanes it’s another thing here mixing it with traffic who don’t give a damn about the cyclist. Just look at the picture of the Dutch cyclists they have a great government who understands their need for cheap, healthy transport and are backed up with a very sensible population as unlike here. I shall continue riding with my cycle helmet, high vis, flashing lights and rear view mirror, planning my route to avoid as much traffic as possible. Now in my 77th year I want to continue cycling as safely as possible I’m not for giving up jest yet. Good article by the way Chris.

But again, notmwishing to drag it into a helmet discussion, bonce potties are not designed or intended to protect you in a vehicular collision, and there is little evidence florries reduce casualty rates (by far the largest individual study shows no casualty reduction linked to their use, although small studies and some statistical analyses disafree to a minor extent.)

There is also evidence that daytime light usage can actually promote collisions in certain scenarios, not reduce them.

The pursuit of safety is rarely linked in any way to perceived common sense on the subject. Forget common sense - it aint common, and it rarely actually makes sense when one examines the data. Unless something is reasonably proven to make you safer you should not expect it to do so, and you should also expect unintended consequences.

I fear what you have actually done is given yourself a comfort blanket and are now paying little heed to tactics that would genuinely promote your safety on the road. For example, how often do we see riders glowing like the big spaceship from Close Encounters, yet riding in the gutter and never deviating their gaze more than 5 degrees from straight ahead, even as they pass junctions and other hazards? They've done nothing to actually make themselves any 'safer'.

Your fundamental point about societal attitudes is bang one and that would be the biggest contributor to a safer riding environment. However, when one looks at measures riders take personally to reduce the risk of collision or injury most actually are proven to do little, and those that may make a difference are often rendered ineffective by the riders poor roadcraft and situational awareness.
 
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For me, it was a much more straightforward decision.

Anyone growing up in the 70's and 80's would never have cycled in a helmet, and I was no different.

So fast forward nearly 30 years, and I thought nothing about wearing a helmet when I returned to cycling.

Whilst commuting, a mate suggested I should consider getting one as it was changed days.

I still remember my response which was, it looks like the wally's (insert your own truth here) who are wearing helmets and I don't feel the need.

His response made me think when he replied that it was the wally's that don't wear them.

I went out and got one and have used one ever since, although I'm under no illusion exactly what protection they offer.

Thinking about it now, I think I carry on wearing one mostly because drivers think I deserve what's coming to me if I don't.

I'm very much aware that I live in a comparatively bike friendly part of an increasingly bike friendly country, so my perception of risk will be different to the UK. It was certainly a shock when I visited the "cycle city" of York in summer, and realised how far behind the UK really is.

My experience in Germany is that most people don't wear a helmet, apart from children, sports cyclists, or very inexperienced cyclists; my observations tally with those of @Drago that many helmet wearers are best given a wide berth.

Another reason people may ride less if there are mandatory helmet laws is the cost; my clients on income support rarely if ever wear helmets because they are an extra expense for people who have to watch every Euro, and for whom a 95€ bike is a big investment; having to pay for more equipment would make cycling prohibitively expensive.
 
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