Keeping safe and being seen on the road

[harlechjoe]

I've just watched Jeremy Vine who articulated thoughts I have held for many years, the need for cyclists to wear safety helmets that are known to reduce the seriousness of head injury and the need to wear high-vis clothing to enhance perceptibility. Whilst we all have our own individual opinion and exercise freedom of choice, I have yet to be convinced that cyclists who do not make an effort to make themselves seen or do not make a effort to wear head protection are in a safer position on the roads than those who do.

 

[Oldhippy]

I have been riding in all traffic situations since 1970, never owned a cycle hat, day glo or any other 'safety' equipment. I continue to use my cycle as daily transport and never been killed or run over. I cover over 4000 miles a year. Confidence Confidence Confidence! It is NOT my responsibility to ensure drivers are paying attention in their mobile living room!

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Not sure why you want someone to convince you. Most of us just get on with riding our bikes and make our own choices in the absence of compelling data either way. There are many other everyday activities where a helmet may make much more sense than when cycling. But you don’t see people questioning why people don’t wear helmets when they are at much greater risk of head injury.

What we do know is that cycling is extremely safe, about same as walking mile for mile. Both would be even safer if speed limits are reduced, we reduce rat runs, and vehicle use is discouraged where alternates exist. Hence the priority of LTNs in news at the moment.

 

[All uphill]

An endless discussion, as we all know.

I really, really want cycling to be a viable, easy means of transport for people going about their daily lives; I forgo helmet and hi-vis mostly because I do not want to be part of putting another obstacle in the way of cycling even if that increases my risk infinitesimally.

I work to stay safe by road-positioning, clear signalling and general assertiveness.

 

[Jody]

The car is the danger and not the cyclist.

Helmet I (mainly) agree with (not to start an argument) but hi vis is victim blaming. The more people do it, the more it will be expected to and those who don't will be blamed.

 

[cyberknight]

It all boils down to how much the vehicle driver is looking and if they really give a flip

 

[Sharky]

I do wear a helmet and hi-viz slap bands when it's dark.
However, statistically I've had more off's and broken bones when solo riding and there hasn't been a car in sight.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

A discussion doomed to be the tenth circle of hell, unfortunately.

I have yet to be convinced that cyclists who do not make an effort to make themselves seen or do not make a effort to wear head protection

A little less judgement and assumption would be helpful to a civilised and rational debate.

In NL practically no-one wears a helmet, with the possible exception of roadies - and I'm not sure that it isn't seen as part of the uniform as opposed to a safety device. Are millions of people not making an effort every day?

I wear a helmet when I tour. The reason for that is that I never quite know where I will end up or on what kind of a surface. It has protected my head - but not perhaps in the way envisaged. Low branches and low doors (in places where I am considered tall) the most obvious ones.

I cycled many thousands of Kms in NL without a helmet.
Now, if I want to go out on the bike a helmet is mandatory. (Spain). I do not agree with mandatory helmet wearing.

Perhaps you mean "in certain circumstances" it's advisable to wear a helmet?

I have also been nearly hit while wearing high Viz and fully lit up. Anecdotal perhaps, and I tend to agree that it's beneficial in a "big picture " sense but it's only one part of a large and complicated picture.

It is NOT my responsibility to ensure drivers are paying attention in their mobile living room!

While I agree it's not your responsibility, you will be the one to suffer for a lack of attention.
There are many things we can do to improve the situation such as campaigning for enforcement of the laws, new laws, education etc.but also simple, practical things on the bike, observation being the most important in my opinion.

The thing is, this car/driver vs cyclist/person on a bike is only significant in certain places.

A more interesting discussion could be had on why that is.

 

[a.twiddler]

Here we go again. People are perfectly entitled to hold whatever bizarre beliefs they want. Once some design of safety helmet appears that is "known to reduce the seriousness of head injury" comes along, please let us know. Even after 30+ odd years of helmet availability there is still no conclusive proof either way. The incidence of any head injury in cyclists is about the same as pedestrians, about 1% of all accidents. Do we hear a call for pedestrian helmets? The incidence of head injury in motor accidents is immensely greater than either of those. Perhaps car occupants should all wear helmets too. By all means wear a helmet if that is what you want to do, but don't kid yourself that it is any more than a fashion accessory masquerading as safety equipment.

As for high viz, no doubt fine in isolation, but in the sea of lights and high viz of an urban environment it blends in. Again, wear it if you want, but just bear in mind that you are just adding ammunition for the victim blaming culture who use it as an excuse for not paying attention. You can be lit up like a Xmas tree and covered in reflectors but if the motorised halfwit who mows you down is not looking, it's all for nothing.

 

[fossyant]

Jeremy Vine is hardly a good advocate, some of his cycling is shockingly bad. All I'll say, no amount of high viz, helmets, big lights etc etc help if a driver doesn't look. High Viz can also be somewhat confusing as there is tonnes of it on the roads, and, rightly or wrongly, wearing a bright neon yellow vest is seen as a slow cyclist to many drivers.

I got my back broken in daylight, wearing a bright red top, powerful flashing lights, all because the driver didn't look. If I was dressed in neon pink it wouldn't have made a difference, they didn't look.

Your opinion is very flawed.

 

[mickle]

The solution to the problem of the mortal danger posed to vulnerable road users by the drivers of automotive carriages is not the widespread adoption of cycle helmets. Nor is it the wearing of hivizdayglo garments. I'd go as far as to say that it's not cyclepaths and cycle lanes either.

 

[mjr]

I've just watched Jeremy Vine who articulated thoughts I have held for many years, the need for cyclists to wear safety helmets that are known to reduce the seriousness of head injury and the need to wear high-vis clothing to enhance perceptibility. Whilst we all have our own individual opinion and exercise freedom of choice, I have yet to be convinced that cyclists who do not make an effort to make themselves seen or do not make a effort to wear head protection are in a safer position on the roads than those who do.

The best evidence that I've seen are that "safety" helmets and clothing make basically no measurable significant difference to cyclist injuries at a population level. While we can (and do!) prove the theoretical physical impact protection of helmets, there seems to be some drawbacks that negate the effect in practice. Similarly, we can prove when cyclists can be perceived from further away, but we can't show that it reduces injury, or even that they are actually "seen" by drivers from further away (unsurprising because roads are bendy and bike lights can be seen from far further away than high-vis).

So, I suspect you won't be convinced that cyclists who don't "make an effort" are safer because it seems to make roughly no difference. They're probably slightly richer not buying pointless things and happier not faffing about with special clothes every ride, but not safer or less safe.

And isn't there a fairness problem with demanding the cyclists "make an effort" instead of the category of road users most likely to injure them?

 

[sheddy]

If not fussed about speed, wear a hi-viz waistcoat - but let the sides flap like flags to get you noticed

 

[steveindenmark]

It is not my place to tell adults whether they should wear helmets and reflective clothing and I would never belittle anyone for doing so.

Wearing helmets and reflective clothing is far more accepted in Denmark than it appears to be in the UK.

I was one of these people who put a helmet on if I remembered to pick it up on the way out the house. Fortunately, I remembered to do that one day about 7 years ago. I was riding downhill at about 40kph and came off on gravel. As I slid down the road, I remember hearing my helmet grinding away. I broke my finger and took the skin off my forearms. My helmet was ground away to the foam for a large section. That would have been my head and forehead. I have worn a helmet on every ride since.

I am a 1950s child and have done many unsafe things and think you need to have a personal close call to realise that it makes sense to take a small precaution like buy a helmet. I was frightened into it. My forearms still have the scars but thankfully my head does not.

In 2020 a drunk moped rider hit me head on. I had plenty of injuries. I am not one for trying to guess if a helmet saved my life. But in this case it was everyones opinion, that it probably did.

Now I had been riding bikes for 50+ years before I started wearing helmets and have had a few spills. All those years count for nothing. You just need one situation and that can change your life.

My opinion is that it is my responsibility to make sure I am as safe as I can be. I am not leaving it to someone else. I wear a helmet and have reflective kit and lots of lights. But it is no guarantee. But it does give me some reassurance.

I am never going to say " I wish I had not been wearing it".

 

[T4tomo]

I've just watched Jeremy Vine

...and there is your mistake. I would only make an exception for Eggheads, although very much despite him pretending he knows any answers.