Bradley Wiggins calls for safer cycling laws and compulsory helmets

[jonesy]

As per previous posts, I tend to agree that the threat of legislation has receeded somewhat in recent years, but I don't actually think that is the main problem anyway. Far more immediate and pernicious is the time and resources wasted, both by road safety and cycling officers promoting helmets, and by campaigners having to rebut the helmet lobbyists; the distraction of policy makers from far more important safety issues; the children prevented from training for not wearing helmets; the great difficulty in getting attractive, positive, aspirational images of cyclists into any publicly funded promotional material because of helmetically-correct requirements to show 'best practice'; the problems with driver attitudes towards cyclists and about cycling when the "Helmetless = irresponsible" and "cycling is dangerous" message is being fed to them from all directions. And that is going to remain a problem even if we've seen off the threat of legislation for the forseeable future.

 

[benb]

I don't even understand why they went rushing to Wiggins for a statement anyway.
If someone had drowned in the Thames, would they have tracked down Phelps for a quote?

 

[dellzeqq]

I don't even understand why they went rushing to Wiggins for a statement anyway.
If someone had drowned in the Thames, would they have tracked down Phelps for a quote?

they might well have done........

 

[Linford]

I would. If it was cheap enough.

And that is the reason why cycle hats are a fairly poor option at the moment

Motorcycle shops take the time to fit the gear. I've crashed a couple of times in full leathers. It still hurt, but I didn't need a trip to A&E and some nurse with a nail brush scrubbing the gravel out of a wound.
Once on the road on Diesel, once on the track on 'the marbles'. Both times the lids came away with grazes on the shells.

I spend as little as possible, always have, I also wear them for many years not 3.

Are you aware of what happens to them over a period of time (more than 3 years)?

 

[Linford]

Have you actually looked at what the spec of motorcycle helmets means? It's for a maximum impact speed IIRC of about 20mph. So not much better than a cycle helmet.

My mate T-boned a car @ 60mph right in front of me wearing a carbon motorcycle lid (it was actually mine like the one in the pic below) - drivers fault.

When he landed,the first thing to connect with the road was his head. He sustained other injuries which were very serious, and he will live with them for the rest of his days, but no head or neck injury at all, and he tumbled for a good distance as well.

Once they settle his compo, I'll bandsaw the lid in half across the impact point on the shell and post the pictures up here.
It was a 60mph landing and a direct impact.

The helmet was a good fit and did its job properly.

 

[Red Light]

My mate T-boned a car @ 60mph right in front of me wearing a carbon motorcycle lid (it was actually mine like the one in the pic below) - drivers fault.

When he landed,the first thing to connect with the road was his head. He sustained other injuries which were very serious, and he will live with them for the rest of his days, but no head or neck injury at all, and he tumbled for a good distance as well.

Once they settle his compo, I'll bandsaw the lid in half across the impact point on the shell and post the pictures up here.
It was a 60mph landing and a direct impact.

The helmet was a good fit and did its job properly.

Nice anecdote but completely avoids the question.

 

[middleagecyclist]

[QUOTE 1966285, member: 45"]What's the relationship between travelling speed prior to impact, and impact speed of the head?[/quote]
Well. It's not really the speed the head hits something that counts but rather how quickly it stops which matters. Hitting the road/ground and rolling/sliding mean a slower deceleration than hitting something solid 'head on' and stopping immediately. The skull +/- helmet stops but the brain carries on going and so slops around in the skull. A bit like some jelly in a tupperware box dropped from a height when it hits the ground. The connections shear, rip and tear. This is called Diffuse Axonal Injury. Helmets do not protect against this and nor do the manafacturers claim they do. If anyone believes a few centimetres of polystyrene can 'cushion' the brain against this kind of injury then they are frankly kidding themselves.

Oh, I wear a helmet. It makes my wife feel better.

 

[Linford]

Nice anecdote but completely avoids the question.

It has validity as the helmet withstood a much greater impact than you claim they are only good for, and successfully absorbed the energy thus allowing him to avoid certain death at worst or a very serious head injury if he'd not been wearing one.

In his words ' I saw the ground rushing towards me after flying through the air and then I headbutted it' I was expecting a much greater impact'

I'd call it more an acid test of the technology than anecdotal evidence.

I was following closely behind him when it happened, and subsequently I was a material witness in the successful prosecution of the driver.

My mates legal team is employing the services of one of the most experienced and knowledgeable motorcycle safety equipment experts in the UK, and his opinion of the value of safety gear contradicts what is being said here (though he hasn't expressed an opinion on cycle helmets to me)

If you ever feel brave enough, take a look on the 'rotten.com' site at a section called 'all the kings horses'. you might just change your opinion about riding without any form of head protection - on a cycle or motorcycle.

Where did you get your source for the 20mph test speed from ?

 

[Andrew_P]

Yet another Helmet debate! Pretty unhelpful for Wiggo to make that bold statement. I can see where I think he was coming from in that give people less ammo against Cyclists just wear the helmet, and remove that from the anti brigade ammo.

I had considered "tweeting" him (if only I knew how to) just affter the TT Gold medal. My Tweet was going to be along the lines of please promote awareness of cyclists, awareness of the facts that drivers need to be much more aware of space and speed, and cyclists need to be far more aware of their obligation to observe road laws. But Helmets well I didn't expect that! He has such a fantastic platform to raise awareness of UK road conditions and driver atitlude towards cyclists it is such a shame to waste it on headphones and helmets. What makes it even worse was I had to endure the venom and hatred towards cyclists on the phone in shows that followed the day after. That never ceases to amaze me and reenforces my view that a lot of the poor driving is punishment for me being part of the "cycling clan"

I wear one, as I have said before it started as pressure from my close ones, but I do regret it as I am a superstitious bugger I now feel compelled to wear one as if I do not wear it then that will be the day I have the accident. Do I believieve a £9.99 or £199.99 helemt will save my life, not really if I am honest, do I think it makes me look good? Defintely not. Is it comfortable, hell no. Will it maybe save a few cuts and bruises? possibly. I am not qualified in anyway to make these assumptions other than common sense, polystyrene wrapped round my skull will not win that many battles other than tumbles. The only benefit I get from it is that other people seem to think it will help.

If the Police in the UK cannot enforce a cyclist to stop at Traffic lights, how on earth are they going to enforce this. The time and effort taken to do this could be far better spent on education, education of both the Drivers and the Cyclists on the road. This more than any Helmet law would help save lives.

 

[MarkF]

Are you aware of what happens to them over a period of time (more than 3 years)?

Yes, of course I am, however I don't wan't one in the first place so I am not going to replace one that still fits am I? I also ride in shorts and flip flops and am happy do so, after all, that's only a pair of slip on shoes off what the continental cops wear.

 

[Linford]

Yes, of course I am, however I don't wan't one in the first place so I am not going to replace one that still fits am I? I also ride in shorts and flip flops and am happy do so, after all, that's only a pair of slip on shoes off what the continental cops wear.

Your invincible attitude is one of someone who has not experienced a serious RTA first hand at speed. The resulting pain is a good focus for thought about the value of protection.

And when I ride my motorcycle, I wear these boots (TCX Competizione S GTX Goretex lined)
They are upwards of £200 new but are well worth it for the protection they afford.

Why ? because a straight break in a leg whilst being particularly nasty is a damned sight easier to heal than a foot or ankle injury. My sister slipped off a step at her kids school about 10 years ago, broke a few bones in her ankle and has suffered very badly every since having to go back in last year to have it all fused together and having the arthritis cut out of it & bone grafts to give her the ability to walk properly again.

The foot and ankle is such a complicated appendage, which bears the body's entire weight, you really can't afford to mess it up.

If the Spanish police authorities are happy to expose their motorcycle mounted officers to that level of risk, they must be paying out loads of compo for the privilege (the cavalier attitude to their responsibilities pervades doesn't it)....a damned sight more than the value I put on protecting my feet.

 

[Dayvo]

I'm sure they're very safe but they look like Darth Vader's wellies!

Or even Darth Vader's waders.

 

[Red Light]

It has validity as the helmet withstood a much greater impact than you claim they are only good for, and successfully absorbed the energy thus allowing him to avoid certain death at worst or a very serious head injury if he'd not been wearing one.

In his words ' I saw the ground rushing towards me after flying through the air and then I headbutted it' I was expecting a much greater impact'

I'd call it more an acid test of the technology than anecdotal evidence.

I was following closely behind him when it happened, and subsequently I was a material witness in the successful prosecution of the driver.

And like many anedotes peoples recollections are wrong. If he had headbutted the road at 60mph he would as an absolute minimum have had severe compressive fractures of his neck vertebrae and very likely paraplegic in a wheelchair now because all that impact force is directed onto the neck. The much more normal crash for motorcyclists - watch what happens in the frequent offs in motorbike racing - is that the head never actually contacts the ground and the motorcyclist tends to slide and roll.

 

[Boris Bajic]

And like many anedotes peoples recollections are wrong. If he had headbutted the road at 60mph he would as an absolute minimum have had severe compressive fractures of his neck vertebrae and very likely paraplegic in a wheelchair now because all that impact force is directed onto the neck. The much more normal crash for motorcyclists - watch what happens in the frequent offs in motorbike racing - is that the head never actually contacts the ground and the motorcyclist tends to slide and roll.

Do be careful when you use the word 'never'.

 

[Linford]

And like many anedotes peoples recollections are wrong. If he had headbutted the road at 60mph he would as an absolute minimum have had severe compressive fractures of his neck vertebrae and very likely paraplegic in a wheelchair now because all that impact force is directed onto the neck. The much more normal crash for motorcyclists - watch what happens in the frequent offs in motorbike racing - is that the head never actually contacts the ground and the motorcyclist tends to slide and roll.

I have had an off on the track, and the helmet bore witness to the impact. It pushed the chin piece into my sternum and produces a large circular bruise on my chest (was doing 45-50mph at the time) see pic - other damage of course, but my head impacted with the ground.

Come to think of it every single accident I've had on a motorcycle in the 35 years of riding has resulted in the helmet sustaining some form of damage. Had the helmet not been there, I have no doubt that my head would have picked up some damage as a result.

Your suppostion that they don't hit the road is quite frankly rubbish.

This is not anecdotal evidence. The crash helmet he was wearing was severely damaged in the impact with the visor mechanism ripped off as well as extensive flaking of the paint around the compression point when he hit the ground, I was close behind him on the blue bike in the picture (i clocked the impact speed at 60mph), saw him bounce off the car and then hit the road head first also.

His left side connected with the the rear quarter of the car mk 1 Focus and had the car light cluster plastic from it embedded in his arm through his leathers. He broke his hip socket, his femur mid length (which is why the doc is supporting his leg to stop the blood supply being cut off), as well as extensive tendon and ligament damage in his knee. He also had 6 breaks in his radius and ulna, and nerve damage which paralysed his arm from the shoulder down for about 4 months. He did however suffer no head or neck injuries as previously stated. The lid did its job.


Now I would put to you that you have a vivid imagination which bears little relevance to the actual events which I was witness too.