Brake & Gear Levers

[Cheddar George]

I also use the front brake predominantly, with a dab of the rear for steep hills and emergencies. I find it stops the bike much quicker and i know from messing about on bikes as kids how easy it can be to lock up the back wheel (i would guess that we have all given up having "longest skid" competitions ). Wet or icy weather does require a more balance approach to braking.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

You want to use your good hand with the front brake. This is the one you need to have most control over as if you pull on that too hard then you could go over the bars if you are not positioned correctly. The rear brake it doesn't matter so much if you lock it up, it is much easier to recover and if you do, the fall is going to hurt less than if you go over the handle bars.

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On another note, with MTBing and using your front brake, with disk brakes, it is totally dependent on the surface you are on and the skill of the rider as to weather you go over the bars or not. Countless times i've used my front brake only to do an emergency stop and i've never gone over the bars. I've purposefully go over the bars several times by applying the brake very hard. It just depends on how hard you pull it, the ground surface and where your body position is.

I should clarify the over the bars bit in relation to the RL post. He stated applying maximum pressure to the front brake.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

What bike you you ride? I am curious as I know that if I do what you suggest on the Cube I will go over the bars. I can brake with one finger and cause this to happen.

It's a Dawes Discovery 601. I'm sure that, if I applied maximum braking at high speed on a dry road, there is a possibility I could flip over the bars, but I just don't do that. Hydraulic brakes give the most amazing control, and it pays to learn how to use that control.

Having said that, one theory is that people go over the bars because they don't brace themselves properly with their arms when braking. The bike stops, but the body keeps going until the legs hit the bars and the bike flips over because there is no weight on the back any more.

This theory seems plausible to me. Supposing the centre of mass of rider and bike is about 45 degrees above and behind the ground contact point of the front wheel (I don't know whether this is accurate, but it seems reasonable, so let's go with it). Then for the bike to flip with the rider in the normal position would require the rider to bear the equivalent of his/her full body weight on the arms. That's quite a lot of force, especially if the arms are not straight.Even if the rider doesn't move forward right to the bars, their CoM could shift forward if they don't brace properly, making it easier for the bike to flip.

 

[lulubel]

I was taught something like "two thirds front brake, one third rear brake" and that's obviously what I still do. The first time I rode my MTB (bought in Spain) the back wheel was sliding all over the place going down a steep dirt road. I thought there was something wrong with it, until I started doing most of my braking with my left hand instead of my right and got it under control. Spain (like the rest of Europe, I think, connects the brakes the other way round).

I feel much safer on my road bike, which was built in the UK, so I think I'll have to swap the cables round on the MTB if I start riding it on the trails.

(MTB has rim, not disc brakes, in case you were wondering, AFS, so I don't think I'm in any danger of throwing myself over the front )

 

[Angelfishsolo]

It's a Dawes Discovery 601. I'm sure that, if I applied maximum braking at high speed on a dry road, there is a possibility I could flip over the bars, but I just don't do that. Hydraulic brakes give the most amazing control, and it pays to learn how to use that control.

Having said that, one theory is that people go over the bars because they don't brace themselves properly with their arms when braking. The bike stops, but the body keeps going until the legs hit the bars and the bike flips over because there is no weight on the back any more.

This theory seems plausible to me because. Supposing the centre of mass of rider and bike is about 45 degrees above and behind from the ground contact point of the front wheel (I don't know whether this is accurate, but let's go with it). Then for the bike to flip with the rider in the normal position would require the rider to bear the equivalent of his/her full body weight on the arms. That's quite a lot of force, especially if the arms are not straight.

Thank you. I was referencing the Red Light quote where he stated that maximum front braking was the best way to emergency stop.

Meanwhile back on the road, most of that almost never applies. As for the explanation, if you are braking the weight will transfer from the rear wheel to the front wheel because your centre of gravity is above the axle of the front wheel. brake hard enough and the rear wheel will start to lift. You are now at maximum braking and the rear brake has zero effect now because its off the ground. brake any harder and the rear wheel will rise higher still and you are then on your way over the bars. The trick is to practice getting to that point where the rear wheel is lifting but without braking so hard that you go over the bars. In the motorbike trade its known as a stoppie. Its much better to practice that than try and learn how to do it while facing an emergency.

From https://www.cyclechat.net/

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I was taught something like "two thirds front brake, one third rear brake" and that's obviously what I still do. The first time I rode my MTB (bought in Spain) the back wheel was sliding all over the place going down a steep dirt road. I thought there was something wrong with it, until I started doing most of my braking with my left hand instead of my right and got it under control. Spain (like the rest of Europe, I think, connects the brakes the other way round).

I feel much safer on my road bike, which was built in the UK, so I think I'll have to swap the cables round on the MTB if I start riding it on the trails.

(MTB has rim, not disc brakes, in case you were wondering, AFS, so I don't think I'm in any danger of throwing myself over the front )

I was taught to use one finger on the front brake and two on the rear. Works a treat

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

I see from a book that was quoted on Wikipedia that the CoM is typically nearly twice as high above the ground as it is behind the front wheel ground contact point, so it would require about 0.5g of braking to reach the flipping point, but the same principle applies. (Half the body weight on the arms.)

One thing for me, though: when I'm commuting, there is so much weight in the panniers on the back that I don't think I could flip the bike even if I tried to!

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I see from a book that was quoted on Wikipedia that the CoM is typically nearly twice as high above the ground as it is behind the front wheel ground contact point, so it would require about 0.5g of braking to reach the flipping point, but the same principle applies. (Half the body weight on the arms.)

One thing for me, though: when I'm commuting, there is so much weight in the panniers on the back that I don't think I could flip the bike even if I tried to!

Therein is a very good point indeed. Also bike length. Try getting a tandem to flip. Great fun to ride then down hills as well

 

[gaz]

I should clarify the over the bars bit in relation to the RL post. He stated applying maximum pressure to the front brake.

As I recall me meant maximum breaking force whilst keeping the bicycle under control. Probably not the best word to use but still technically correct.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

As I recall me meant maximum breaking force whilst keeping the bicycle under control. Probably not the best word to use but still technically correct.

I did try top clarify this but got nowhere. I would opt for the term optimal. Anyway it seems to be a lot harder to go over the bars with calliper brakes then it does with Hydraulic Disks

 

[Twigman]

Anyway it seems to be a lot harder to go over the bars with calliper brakes then it does with Hydraulic Disks

It can be made extremely easy if someone removes the nut on the back of the brake caliper mounting bolt while your bike is left in the school bikesheds - this happened to me and resulted in needing a new front wheel (spokes stripped out and rim buckled) and new fork (bent parallel to the down tube!! ).

 

[lulubel]

I was taught to use one finger on the front brake and two on the rear. Works a treat

I think that's effectively what I was doing, to be honest.

It was a steep track, hard underneath, with a thin layer of dust/grit on the top. It was hard to even walk down it without slipping.

I think the front brake was on just hard enough to control the speed without locking the wheel, but the back wheel was locked and sliding sideways. I kept easing off the left lever to try and unlock the back wheel, but of course, I was releasing the front brake instead of the back.

It's that incident that's made me nervous of taking my MTB off-road now. There are a lot of dry, dusty tracks like that here, and I didn't feel like I was in control of the bike at all.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

It can be made extremely easy if someone removes the nut on the back of the brake caliper mounting bolt while your bike is left in the school bikesheds - this happened to me and resulted in needing a new front wheel (spokes stripped out and rim buckled) and new fork (bent parallel to the down tube!! ).

Ouch!

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I think that's effectively what I was doing, to be honest.

It was a steep track, hard underneath, with a thin layer of dust/grit on the top. It was hard to even walk down it without slipping.

I think the front brake was on just hard enough to control the speed without locking the wheel, but the back wheel was locked and sliding sideways. I kept easing off the left lever to try and unlock the back wheel, but of course, I was releasing the front brake instead of the back.

It's that incident that's made me nervous of taking my MTB off-road now. There are a lot of dry, dusty tracks like that here, and I didn't feel like I was in control of the bike at all.

This is why speed is your friend and also why I am no good at technical descents.

 

[aberal]

Been there, done that.

Don't tell me it won't happen coz you are wrong.


Edit: and just to be clear that was on a rim caliper rubber block braked bike albeit I was going downhill on the drops at the time

Sorry mate - but you are wrong. Wrong. wrong, wrong. Plain old wrong. Except when you are going downhhill on rim caliper rubber block brakes.

What I will concede - is that only mountain bikers who never read a book on the subject and work on instinct, truly know how to brake. In which, I confess, I include myself....