Brakes

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sidevalve

Über Member
Just got to wondering how good are modern cycle brakes. I mean yes I know you can "jam all on" and fall off [we cold always do that !] and discs are great in the wet but do you reach a point where it either exceeds tyre adhesion [skid] or locks the wheel, likely fall ?
Many are happy to ride at 30 mph but in an emergency how fast can you REALLY stop. Curious really as to wether brakes are that much better than they were twenty years ago [and yes we did have alloy rims etc, I'm not refering to the 1900's here] in actual "stop you on the road" terms. Is it a case that they may be too powerfull ? I mean car brakes are much more powerfull than they were and most have anti lock so can be used hard in an emergency.
This is no dig, just a question ie if a car stops in front of you or a child runs out, how much room would you need to stop in and the real question I suppose is, is this less than it was twenty years ago ?
If the answer is no or not much then are we being conned by the manufacturers again ?
If you have an older bike and a new 'un give it a try [if you fall off it sort of proves my point, but don't blame me].
Anyway the results could be interesting.
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
With modern brakes in the dry the back of the bike is likely to lift before the front tyre loses traction, I had to back out of an emergency stop at one point last year because I was in danger of somersaulting the bike, if its wet and I know its slippery I leave the front brake alone and use the back brake. Modern brakes are very good and can give an impressively short stopping distance as long as they are well maintained and looked after. I'm old enough to remember some of the brakes years ago when the back brake was as important as the front brake because the front brake wasn't powerful enough to lift the back of the bike, and the stopping distance was a lot more than it is today.
 
OP
OP
sidevalve

sidevalve

Über Member
I know what you mean but I'm not doubting anyones braking here just have we reached the stage where the brakes are more powerfull than the tyres grip on the road/or as you say you do a dive over the bars.
I also agree that some of the old brakes were pretty rubbish but I had a sport bike in the 70s with centre pull weineman calipers that, if you were silly, produced an effect not much short of putting a stick through the wheel.
 

Globalti

Legendary Member
The disc brakes on my mountain bike are original model Hope Minis but they are capable of standing the bike on its front wheel. Mrs Gti's more modern bike has some Avids and they are even better, really powerful. My road bike has rim brakes, which can easily lock the wheels but the problem is that braking with hands on hoods doesn't give you much power so it's the application of the brakes, not the brakes themselves that is the problem. My Tricross has cable discs, which are very much more powerful than the rim brakes on the roadie, so better if you are riding with hands on hoods.

Braking is not the problem, controlling the weight of bike and rider in an emergency stop is the problem.
 

Rickshaw Phil

Overconfidentii Vulgaris
Moderator
In my experience, the biggest difference with modern brakes is better modulation rather than the outright power. This makes it easier to control a sudden stop without locking up.

On my older bikes doing an emergency stop was a scary thing as they would very easily go from not enough braking to too much. With something more modern it's quite easy to find that sweet spot and hold it until stopped.
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
I find the opposite is true rickshaw phil...

it's much easier to find and maintain the sweet spot on my old centre pull caliper brakes that it is on V-brakes for example... IMO of course.

Each their own i guess. Emergency braking is as much to with positioning your body weight back over the rear wheel as it is slamming the anchors on.
 

Rickshaw Phil

Overconfidentii Vulgaris
Moderator
I had to look up centre pull calipers as I've not used those (my old ones were all side pull). That design looks like it would give good mechanical advantage and I imagine the feel would be similar to cantilevers (which I like).
 
I agree completely with those who've mentioned bodyweight. That is absolutely key on anything so light and with only two tiny contact patches. Not only when braking, but most importantly when doing so.

With cable brakes, correct adjustment seems to be important.

Similarly, rims that are true and clean.

My hydraulic-disc-equipped MTB can throw me over the bars any time it likes. But so can its V-Brake and Cani-Brake predecessors. The great thing about the discs is that they can keep doing so for hours on end with little fade and no adjustment in the grittiest of grit. They are also highly effective with just a finger's worth of pressure on the lever.

For all that... Do I have more confidence in my roadbike's brakes than I had in those of my roadbike 30 years ago? No.

Tyres, yes. For grip, puncture-resistance and wear-resistance they are incomparably better now than then.

Brakes.... No.
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
I also agree that some of the old brakes were pretty rubbish but I had a sport bike in the 70s with centre pull weineman calipers that, if you were silly, produced an effect not much short of putting a stick through the wheel.

I always found the Weimman centre pull were quite good, but we used to fit moped outer cables and be particular about looking after them, it was the side pulls that were rubbish, even more so with steel rims.
Both brakes and tyres have come on a lot over the years, but with rim brakes we haven't got to the stage where the brakes outdo traction in the dry, not yet anyway, when its wet and slippery it might be a different matter, I'm glad to say emergency stops are rare and I can't remember the last time I did one in the wet, I can't comment on discs though, I've no experience of those.
 

HovR

Über Member
Location
Plymouth
I always found the Weimman centre pull were quite good, but we used to fit moped outer cables and be particular about looking after them, it was the side pulls that were rubbish, even more so with steel rims.

Had to perform an emergency stop today, in the wet, with some mid/late 70's Weinmann side pull brakes on alu rims - Managed to lift the back wheel off the ground from the hoods, so they can't be all that bad!
 

derrick

The Glue that binds us together.
Stopping from high speed feels a lot nicer when i use the bike fitted with disc brakes, they seem to have a better feel to them, but the road bike brakes work well it's the skinny tyres that make it feel a bit twitchy.
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
Brakes V, modern Ultegra side pull brakes, rims themselves, brake blocks, disc brakes, etc are many many times better than brakes of yester year, cetainly better than crappy Weineman centre pull brakes which I had on a Raleigh Carlton back in the day. They weren't much good in the dry and serious toilet inducing performance in the wet and I used to think them good! Well they were like light and day compared to the medieaval side pull brakes on bikes up until the early 80s. Then V brakes came along which were a revelation by comparison as they actually stopped you and your bike, still not so good in the wet, but disc brakes have changed all that. The performance of disc brakes on bikes is awesome. Even with Vs on a dry day you could stop on a 5p but with discs you can do this what ever the conditions, ok not ice and snow, but you get my drift. Plus with disc brakes the rims don't wear out necessitating a new wheel.

The other important leap in technology has been the introduction of STI levers, decent brake levers and rapid fire shifters. The quality of components these days is so much better than the crap of yester year. Although there are bikes that do stand out as being pioneers of the time, there were an awful lot of crap bikes we had to suffer to get where we are today. Bikes and component design and quality has increased many fold. Bikes are now actually quite reliable and enjoyable to ride, well apart from those sold in the back of newspapers and Appollos from Halfords.
 

TheDoctor

Europe Endless
Moderator
Location
The TerrorVortex
^^What Crankarm said.

Even the cheapest of Shimano stuff works well and reliably. Put a set of pink (ie softer) blocks on the front, and Sora brakes will stop you from 50+mph. Been there, done that.
The good bit is that they've got good modulation too - it's not just on/off. Brakes really have improved out of all recognition since I started riding about 30 years ago.
 
Bah! Nowt wrong with the brakes of yesteryear, mind you my mum used to wonder how I went through shoe leather so quick. The real problem was the steel rims as pointed out, I used to ride with these in the Pendle area of Lancashire with side pull brakes. I learnt my survival bike handling skills going down 20% hills wearing a cape with a tailwind and equipment as above, looking back I'm surprised I survived.
 
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