Broccoli head from Spain priced 20p in supermarket.

[simongt]

Was in Waitrose today; my dear sisters choice for shopping, not mine - ! Noticed Dragon fruit from Vietnam and mangoes from Peru.
Suppose folk want, folk get, do they really care where something is from - ?

 

[Reynard]

I've tried dragon fruit when it's been on sticker, and it's distinctly uninspiring. I had much more fun growing cacti from the seeds. (It's a species of Opuntia if my memory hasn't failed me.)

Stuff that's been shipped (oranges, bananas, mangoes, pears) in chilled containers is still more environmentally friendly than something that's been flown in. I don't mind for things that the UK can't grow, but if it's something that can be grown here, then I very rarely* buy it out of season.

* on yellow sticker, all bets are off...

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I was sent a food survey by the Zoe Covid19 app, they are researching links between diet and menopause symptoms. I should not have filled it, because I'm well past it
Anyhow, the questionnaire formulation made me think.
The questions were about what foods have you eaten in the last 3 months, and the frequency of eating them, followed by a long list of fruits and vegetables, then your usual other foods.
Most fruit and veg on the list were out of season in the last 3 months here in the UK, not considering all the exotic produce that we can't grow.
My thoughts are:
If we, as a nation, decide to use more home grown, hence a more limited variety of foods, will this affect our health?
Has the Spanish imported 20p broccoli the same nutritional value that home grown, low carbon footprint, possibly organic(ish) broccoli has? Of course not, fresher keeps nutrients better, would we need to eat a bigger amount of said imported broccoli? Maybe not consider them as part of a healthy diet?
The Zoe app people work with the NHS: why are the questions not formulated in a way that I can say, well, I never had Strawberries in the last 3 months because the Scottish ones were not on the market yet.

 

[mudsticks]

I was sent a food survey by the Zoe Covid19 app, they are researching links between diet and menopause symptoms. I should not have filled it, because I'm well past it
Anyhow, the questionnaire formulation made me think.
The questions were about what foods have you eaten in the last 3 months, and the frequency of eating them, followed by a long list of fruits and vegetables, then your usual other foods.
Most fruit and veg on the list were out of season in the last 3 months here in the UK, not considering all the exotic produce that we can't grow.
My thoughts are:
If we, as a nation, decide to use more home grown, hence a more limited variety of foods, will this affect our health?
Has the Spanish imported 20p broccoli the same nutritional value that home grown, low carbon footprint, possibly organic(ish) broccoli has? Of course not, fresher keeps nutrients better, would we need to eat a bigger amount of said imported broccoli? Maybe not consider them as part of a healthy diet?
The Zoe app people work with the NHS: why are the questions not formulated in a way that I can say, well, I never had Strawberries in the last 3 months because the Scottish ones were not on the market yet.

You're right to be concerned about the nutritional value of our foods.

Industrial agriculture is primarily concerned with yield, ie tonnage, speed of growth, transportabilty and shelf life / shelf appearance.

Nutrition, and even taste come far down the list of attributes, given they do not directly affect profits in the same way.

Add to that the degradation of soils due to over cultivation, and pesticides, and herbicides used, ..

Not such a pretty picture of once you look beneath the skin..

https://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/follow-the-food/why-modern-food-lost-its-nutrients/

Even if all else was equal (and it isn't) your home grown PSB will far outstrip the Spanish stuff, just because nutrients start to be lost as soon as it is harvested..

First batch of sweet peppers going in today.. 😊

 

[Pat "5mph"]

First batch of sweet peppers going in today..

Outside???
Edit: I can see now they are in a polytunnel, I feel less envious

 

[Reynard]

Ah, you should've passed that one on to me @Pat "5mph"

I think I've had one punnet of strawberries since the tail end of September - bought on sticker, and only then because I could actually smell the "strawberry aroma" through my mask.

As long as we'd be eating a balanced diet, I think we'd be fine. In the winter, there is a good variety of UK-grown veg available. Off the top of my head, Tesco stocks British carrots, parsnips, cauliflower, sprouts, kale, spring greens, swede, turnip, celeriac, celery, chicory, several varieties of cabbages and, of course, potatoes. Plus I can get stuff locally by the roadside as well.

With a lot of people, it's knowing what to *DO* with the veg that's the issue...

As a historical aside, you only need to look at the WW2 diet on the home front to see what can be done.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

With a lot of people, it's knowing what to *DO* with the veg that's the issue...

Agree. I am planning to offer some free homegrown veg to my community.
I'll post on the results.
I have offered small amounts to next door in the past: radishes and raspberries they professed to like, but refused to pick for themselves from the communal patch.
French beans they did not know how to cook.
Cherries from communal trees, the kids thought they were poison, one adult said she would not eat them from "those" (?) trees.

As a historical aside, you only need to look at the WW2 diet on the home front to see what can be done.

I am old, but not that old lol
But I know what you mean

 

[KnittyNorah]

With a lot of people, it's knowing what to *DO* with the veg that's the issue...

And for some of the most deprived in our population, it's not just the knowing what to do, it's the ability use that knowledge ... someone living in one room in a B&B with a couple of kids in bunk beds, won't be able to do much with most of the cheap good stuff around.
Jack Monroe's cookery books - Tin Can Cook and the like - really have been a game changer for many people on tight budgets, whether they're in grim circumstances or not, but ... low-budget recipes are all well and good for people that can read them, and get to the supermarket on the right bus, and find the right aisle, and read the labels on the tins ...
I did some voluntary work for a charity and - well - many people can't do any of those things with any degree of confidence. It's easier - less stressful, less anxiety-provoking, less time-consuming - to get a takeaway or, at best, a frozen pizza, a packet of crisps and a packet of biscuits or a synthetic cake from the corner shop ...

Sad, but there it is.

 

[Reynard]

Cherries from communal trees, the kids thought they were poison, one adult said she would not eat them from "those" (?) trees.

I'll be willing to bet they didn't know that fruit actually grows on trees...

I am old, but not that old lol
But I know what you mean

Sorry... I'm keen on WW2 history - not just the military stuff, but the home front as well. I once did a "Dig for Victory" themed pen one year at the Supreme (the cat version of Crufts) and won overall Best Decorated Pen.

P.S. That's my much-missed cat, Pearl.

 

[mudsticks]

And for some of the most deprived in our population, it's not just the knowing what to do, it's the ability use that knowledge ... someone living in one room in a B&B with a couple of kids in bunk beds, won't be able to do much with most of the cheap good stuff around.
Jack Monroe's cookery books - Tin Can Cook and the like - really have been a game changer for many people on tight budgets, whether they're in grim circumstances or not, but ... low-budget recipes are all well and good for people that can read them, and get to the supermarket on the right bus, and find the right aisle, and read the labels on the tins ...
I did some voluntary work for a charity and - well - many people can't do any of those things with any degree of confidence. It's easier - less stressful, less anxiety-provoking, less time-consuming - to get a takeaway or, at best, a frozen pizza, a packet of crisps and a packet of biscuits or a synthetic cake from the corner shop ...

Sad, but there it is.

Yup,

I know it's usually well meaning, but I get a bit tired of hearing that people on low budgets just need to buy root vegetables , and cheap cuts of meat and make slow cooked casseroles .

If only it was that simple..

There are so many other barriers to people being able to feed themselves, and their families well.

Knowledge, money, facilities, availability of fresh food locally, and the time, and energy if working long hours, and living in poor conditions.

I remember well myself even after long hard day's growing (other peoples) veg, having scooped the kids up from school, and done all the other necessaries - a frozen pizza for tea was the most I could manage..

 

[KnittyNorah]

I know it's usually well meaning, but I get a bit tired of hearing that people on low budgets just need to buy root vegetables , and cheap cuts of meat and make slow cooked casseroles .

If only it was that simple..

Indeed.
Someone said something on those lines to me once, when I mentioned that I was teaching at this charity endeavour which was being held in the kitchens of an old 'institution'. I said oh, so you're going to buy them a slow cooker and paring knives and a washing up bowl, are you, and look after the kids while she goes to the market and scrabbles around for the cheapest veg and some scrag-end? And where are you going to suggest they do the prep in the one room they live in with the three kids running around - should they cut the meat up in the baby's potty, or in the shared hand-basin on the landing ...
'Oh erm I didn't realise' was the response. Give credit where credit is due, though - this person did give a very generous donation to the project I was involved in which enabled useful kitchen equipment to be provided when the families we were working with were allocated housing. BTW this was not in the UK.

 

[gbb]

Looking back at the original question, how do they do it ?
20p piece of broccoli. Maybe 30 pieces in a box, £6
Maybe 60 boxes on a pallet, £360
Maybe 20 pallets of a lorry, £7200, thats at selling prices.

Just rough calculations, you could get more in a box etc etc but a rule of thumb at work i think is 20 pallets, 60 boxes on a pallet.
Add transport costs, deduct the actual cost of the broccoli, its a really quite low value load I should think. Loss leader perhaps because there can be precious little profit in it surely ?

 

[Reynard]

That wouldn't surprise me if it's a loss-leader @gbb

Tesco sell marmalade for 27p a jar. That has to be a loss-leader too, I'd imagine by the time you take ingredients, processing, packaging and logistics into account. OK, you've got the economies of scale, but still...

Home made marmalade sets me back about 50p a jar, but then I buy the fruit on sticker or when it's heavily discounted. I don't count my time, and the the jars I have. (I got given loads and save the jars from things I buy.)

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Add transport costs, deduct the actual cost of the broccoli, its a really quite low value load I should think. Loss leader perhaps because there can be precious little profit in it surely ?

Do you mean loss leader for the producer or for the supermarket?
I know that by transport you mean the supermarket's logistics costs.
I think it was a "veg drive", to complement Asda's latest advertising of being a seller of outstanding fresh produce.
On the by, all the 20p veg are gone now, broccoli is back to 50p - will check the country of origin next time.

 

[Roseland triker]

I don't see why so much fuss.
It's free here on a daily basis.....
If you're prepared to pay 20p then good on ya