Broccoli head from Spain priced 20p in supermarket.

[icowden]

I don't claim to know who invented it, but that idea has been around quite a long time!

Yes. Very popular in Scandinavian countries, not so much in the UK.

 

[Alex321]

Yes. Very popular in Scandinavian countries, not so much in the UK.

It is called protectionism, and while there are arguments in favour, there are also arguments against, and it is illegal within the EU.

 

[icowden]

It is called protectionism, and while there are arguments in favour, there are also arguments against, and it is illegal within the EU.

We aren't in the EU.

 

[mudsticks]

It is called protectionism, and while there are arguments in favour, there are also arguments against, and it is illegal within the EU.

Except EU farmers are 'protected' under the CAP.
And are rewarded via area payments,for adhering to minimum standards* on production values.

Outside of the CAP , with global trade 'deals' UK farmers are not protected from lower standard imports .

But still if they wish to sell into the EU , they have to meet those minimum standards, but no longer enjoy frictionless trade..

Oh well...


*We could argue those 'minimum' standards within the EU could be higher, but that would be verging on politics.

Otherwise the rest is just 'facts' which we've established are allowed here - .

 

[Stephenite]

Yeah - Norway has this weird policy of ensuring that Norwegian farmers produce is cheaper than imported thus protecting their farmers. Those Norwegians and their crazy ideas!!!

A policy I support. It’s just that, even after living here twenty years, I get surprised at how much things cost when I convert to “real” money.

 

[gbb]

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-...rias-environmental-and-humanitarian-disaster/
I've driven past areas like this, its staggering how much plastic must be used. The article doesn't paint a pretty picture

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Thank you again @gbb for the expanded info in your last post.
I was back in Asda today: it's on my route home from work, I tend to go every few days.
Depending on how much space I have in my panniers, sometimes I can only pick up a couple of items.
Anyhow, the sea of 20p Spanish broccoli was broken up by a lake of 20p Scottish carrots (I would say about a kg in weight, forgot to check) and by another lake of 20p British parsnips.
Both carrots and parsnips were freshly washed and packaged in plastic.
I think they must be last season's stock, I can understand local farmers wanting rid, but surely the transport and packaging must cost more than 20p for a kg.
I suppose, better a little money for the farmer than the produce going to landfill, which would cost the farmer anyway.
My new season carrots and parsnips have already germinated

This is in stark contrast go a former company 20 years ago. They would buy a crop and make it fit the customers requirements.

I remember, when I came to the UK 35 years ago, there was only (British) seasonal produce in the supermarket. To buy a head of garlic you had to go to an Italian or Greek delicatessen.
In Scotland that was, I know London as always been more cosmopolitan.
With the start of cheap travel abroad in the 90s, I think the consumers were ready for a more varied food produce availability.
I was very surprised, though, when everything started to appear in supermarkets visually uniform, unblemished, already washed.
Totally different from a continental veg market: somehow, the British consumer is now expecting perfectly shaped veg, all the same size and weight - and clean!

Because it tastes disgusting and no one wants to buy it.

To be honest, I was very surprised too. Here in Scotland we are famous for not eating our veg, mainly because they are traditionally boiled to death

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-...rias-environmental-and-humanitarian-disaster/
I've driven past areas like this, its staggering how much plastic must be used. The article doesn't paint a pretty picture

Before reading this article, I wouldn't have thought that a country with a climate like Spain needs a lot of greenhouse space.
The article doesn't specify if also brassicas are grown under plastic: I know mine bolt at the minimum rise of temperatures, so do my spinach and lettuce.
Is the plastic needed to keep pests away, maybe?
The more I look into this, the less I'm inclined to buy 20p veg again, unless they are on yellow sticker at the end of the trading day

 

[KnittyNorah]

I remember, when I came to the UK 35 years ago, there was only (British) seasonal produce in the supermarket. To buy a head of garlic you had to go to an Italian or Greek delicatessen.

When I left home to go to university, more than 50 years ago, I was SHOCKED beyond all of my expectations, when I went to an ordinary greengrocer (no such thing as supermarkets then! Well, maybe in London ...) to find that they didn't have peppers, garlic, fresh herbs(other than curly parsley) or ... loads of things ...

I soon found the Chinese shops in Manchester - same with the Italian and Indian shops.

All things which my dad grew (obviously not the same varieties as dad grew but still) in his allotment and greenhouse in a northwest England hill village, which my mum cooked and which we as a family enjoyed eating. Mind you we were the first people in the village - other than the butcher, the fishmonger and the people at the 'big house' - to have a fridge and I think we had an actual freezer before any of them, for my dad's produce. STILL can only rarely get some of the veggies and soft fruits my dad grew and that I still enjoy - thank goodness for Booth's here in the northwest.

 

[theclaud]

Broccoli is politics, Pat, as you seem to be discovering. Maybe explain that to Shaun, when you have a minute.

 

[gbb]

The promotions (20p carrots, parsnips etc) ...it seems to me they started mid 2000s with Aldi, At a former packhouse, they'd pack apples and citrus for what seemed like silly prices during these supermarket led promotions, maybe 3 or 4 times a year. You had no choice as a supplier, they were or became part and parcel of doing business with them. When we asked the management how we did it for those silly prices, the answer was...you couldnt, you (the supplier) effectively lost money, you paid the price, the supermarket got the glory.
I assume the volume sales over the year kept the supplier going, the promotions were a neccessary evil, i remember they used to make us very very busy...making very little or nothing each promotion.
Its a tough world out there as an independant packer...but as said, i suspect there arent many out there anymore.
I think Asda have their own packhouses but dont know how their supply chain from the farms work so how it worked mid 2000s may not be the case now, equally, it might be.

 

[gbb]

I was very surprised, though, when everything started to appear in supermarkets visually uniform, unblemished, already washed.
Totally different from a continental veg market: somehow, the British consumer is now expecting perfectly shaped veg, all the same size and weight - and clean!

This is one difficult to disentangle. I used to work regularly in Cyprus on a citrus farm. They used to complain bitterly about our never ending demands on visual quality, blemishes, scars etc. No-one likes to supply the British market a senior member of this farm personally told me, no-one else in the world is so fussy.
Is it British public driven, or is it the supermarkets being over zealous. Im sure the supermarkets would plead its what the public demand...but i dont buy it.
After our company went bust, that farm happily sold its entire crops to Russia. Prompt payers (something the British are known to be) and far less rigorous ib the quality standards.
Pereonally i couldnt care less if my veg is cleaned, lightly damaged, scarred, anything less than perfect. If it'll cut out, wash out, its good enough for me.

 

[mudsticks]

@Pat "5mph"
many crops are grown under under plastic in Spain to extend the season in both directions, make pest control, climate and irrigation easier, and to protect crops from rain splash for that 'perfect' look which as you say the UK customer in particular seems to demand .

Although produce that goes through a packhouse, multiple transfers via refrigerated lorries, and longer chain logistics will need to fit uniformly into punnets and packaging, and have a long shelf life.. .

Often leading to a lot of waste.

Footling considerations such as nutrition, or flavour, come far down the lust.

I'm just about to send the last 100kg of carrots off to a place that can redistribute them via a sort of food bank that can deal with surpluses of fresh produce

I'm lucky enough to have the kind of soil where I can overwinter all my roots in situ
Beetroot parsnip celeriac and carrots.
Glad I don't have to lift all that tonnage and store it inside.

Sugar snap peas in polytunnels are just starting to flower here should be ready to harvest in about three weeks.

With polytunnels I can supply all year round


Food production, who grows it and how, who gets the profit, who gets paid properly, who doesn't, can't help but be political
.
On average only 8p of the supermarket shelf price gets back to the primary producer.
That's not sustainable.

Many can't be expected to keep going like that..

Smaller agroecological farms like mine can make it pay generally by selling direct.
And by growing a wider variety of crops..
About 50+ here..

Working conditions, environmental consequences, nutrition, food justice and security, climate effects, ..

It's a big ol' subject .

Happy Easter anyhow..
Really getting into eggy bread for farm lunches atm

 

[gbb]

When I left home to go to university, more than 50 years ago, I was SHOCKED beyond all of my expectations, when I went to an ordinary greengrocer (no such thing as supermarkets then! Well, maybe in London ...) to find that they didn't have peppers, garlic, fresh herbs(other than curly parsley) or ... loads of things ...

I soon found the Chinese shops in Manchester - same with the Italian and Indian shops.

All things which my dad grew (obviously not the same varieties as dad grew but still) in his allotment and greenhouse in a northwest England hill village, which my mum cooked and which we as a family enjoyed eating. Mind you we were the first people in the village - other than the butcher, the fishmonger and the people at the 'big house' - to have a fridge and I think we had an actual freezer before any of them, for my dad's produce. STILL can only rarely get some of the veggies and soft fruits my dad grew and that I still enjoy - thank goodness for Booth's here in the northwest.

I suspect we were very limited in expectation and need say 40/50 years ago. The vast vast majority of people never travelled...it says a lot when a Vesta curry was seen as something exotic...and we did consider it exotic , us that had no former access to chili's, pepper, noodles etc etc.
If I think back to my childhood in the 1960s and 70s, grapes and oranges were available but that was about it . I assume they were shipped in.

As aside subject, what astounds me is how people haven't cottoned on the environmental impact of the flowers available at supermarkets, a huge amount are flown in from Africa and South America, the carbon footprint must be enormous.

 

[mudsticks]

I suspect we were very limited in expectation and need say 40/50 years ago. The vast vast majority of people never travelled...it says a lot when a Vesta curry was seen as something exotic...and we did consider it exotic , us that had no former access to chili's, pepper, noodles etc etc.
If I think back to my childhood in the 1960s and 70s, grapes and oranges were available but that was about it . I assume they were shipped in.

As aside subject, what astounds me is how people haven't cottoned on the environmental impact of the flowers available at supermarkets, a huge amount are flown in from Africa and South America, the carbon footprint must be enormous.

I've noticed a big upsurge in interest eating more seasonally over the last few years.
It's no longer seen as just a niche obsession for middle class hippies.

And there's lots of youngsters keen to enter the trade, I train quite a few here, but opportunities to get started are scarce.

We could grow far more of our own fresh produce though.. Even the more 'exotic' stuff, just not expect it all, all of the time.
Garlic for example does fine here.
And my avatar is mine own produce

And there's a much greater awareness of problems caused by flown in produce grown at scale on other peoples soil, where labour conditions and safety regs are poor.

Fertile ground in hungry countries is being used to grow temporary decorations, and non essential food for our tables here .
Using substantial quantities of chemical inputs in industrialised systems, with all the environmental consequences alongside..

Of course these issues are not really drawn attention to to by the large retailers.

But in our 'information' age there's not much excuse for not knowing about these things.
Perhaps some people would rather not know??

 

[gbb]

I've noticed a big upsurge in interest eating more seasonally over the last few years.
It's no longer seen as just a niche obsession for middle class hippies.

And there's lots of youngsters keen to enter the trade, I train quite a few here, but opportunities to get started are scarce.

We could grow far more of our own fresh produce though.. Even the more 'exotic' stuff, just not expect it all, all of the time.
Garlic for example does fine here.
And my avatar is mine own produce

And there's a much greater awareness of problems caused by flown in produce grown at scale on other peoples soil, where labour conditions and safety regs are poor.

Fertile ground in hungry countries is being used to grow temporary decorations, and non essential food for our tables here .
Using substantial quantities of chemical inputs in industrialised systems, with all the environmental consequences alongside..

Of course these issues are not really drawn attention to to by the large retailers.

But in our 'information' age there's not much excuse for not knowing about these things.
Perhaps some people would rather not know??

I think its the human condition, you only have to look around average urban estates now, few people seem to care about their own environment! Why would they care about anyone else's? Look at the low level fly tipping, its like no--one can be bothered to do the simple stuff. See our local junior school, the playground looks like a rubbish tip after a weekend, crisp packets, cake packets, cups, bottles strewn all over. Schools seem reluctant to encourage kids to do litter pick, if you cant encourage children to care, you're lost in 20 years time.
It seems to me we (society in general) have become remarkably selfish in this country.