Brompton Advice

[Andy in Germany]

It looks likely that I'll have a new job from May/June this year, which is about 10 miles/15k away from here. It's a flat and generally traffic free 15k so I'm likely to cycle commute, but I would like an option for when I have to take the train on rainy or snowy days when I need to look respectable. This involves a 2-5k ride on gravel and tarmac to the station and a 6 min train ride. The problem is that I have to pay a full persons fare if I take a normal bike on the train between 6-9 am because it's officially rush hour.

Therefore I'm looking at folding bikes, specifically a used Brompton. These are surprisingly common here, but I'm obviously not going to have as much choice as I would in the UK, and when one comes up I'll need to get it fairly quickly, so I've a couple of questions for Brompton users:

• I'm tending toward the 16" wheel because it would fit into trains better but I don't want to rattle my teeth out on the was to the station. Is there a big difference in ride quality between the 16" and 20" versions?
• I've seen some people using one a great deal but I'm also aware that it's more weight. How helpful is the luggage rack as a stand?
• How easy is it to fit a hub dynamo or better lights?
• I'd prefer a flat handlebar because of the riding position, but the most popular here seems to be the "city" bar which drops down in the middle/raises the grips. is changing the bar an option or would that require a different stem?
• How much of the gears and braking system is standard and how much is Brompton specific and therefore more expensive to fix and replace?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions...

 

[steveindenmark]

Andy, I dont know if this is any help. There is a Brompton Junction in Munich. My advice. Get the bigger wheels and get the rack. The rack is really useful as a stand and to carry gear, You can buy a wheel with the hub dynamo fitted. Changing the handlebar is expensive and a pain as you would need a new stem and cables. All the gearing is Brompton specific, as is most of the braking. Dont worry about the weight. It is easy to carry by hooking the saddle over your shoulder.

 

[chriswoody]

Folders also come in other flavours as well.

I ride a Tern for precisely the same reasons as you and for roughly the same distance. The Tern has 20 inch wheels and rides really nicely. Mine is a single speed variant which sadly isn't made any more, however, they do a nice internal hub 3 speed and 7 speed models. looking on ebay Kleinanzeigen should turn up some good used examples. A friend of mine recently bought a 3 speed internal hubbed Tern, with rack and hub dynamo for 400 euros brand new.

I don't know about how much room you have on your trains, but we have the double decker Bombardier trains here, so folded size is no problem, because the bike carriage is one whole deck. However if you don't have much room, then Brompton's are the way forward.

 

[Sharky]

I feel guilty for suggesting this, but if it's only 3 miles to the station, have you considered walking? Should only take about 45 mins?

 

[T4tomo]

@Sharky wash your mouth out!!

Ok to the specific questions.

The Brompton ride quality is actually pretty decent, despite its 16" wheels. Yes a 20" will be marginally better, but doesnt fold as small for the train. On a UK train that small fold size is a big advantage, you can make that judgement for german trains, but you aren't losing much in ride quality, infact a Brommie may be better than a cheap 20" bike

Luggage - I would use front mounted luggage, its really convenient to take on and off (or leave in place) as you fold, avoids the weiht of a rack, and actually improves the handling having a bit of weight on the front end.

Dynamo - I wouldn't say is a necessity, there are so many decent led lights around now. but as said above - you buy a specific wheel for it.

all the bars have specific stems to get the geometry correct. some people fit 3rd part low riser bars to the M type as compromise. I have the flat S type bars which I have to say put you in a more "normal" riding position than the M type

Gearing is all quite specific (its Brompton specific SA hub, and/ or proprietary 2 spd derailleur) although not particularly expensive to replace. The SA hub is very reliable, and the sprockets and chainrings are very cheap to replace.

 

[Gunk]

I wouldn’t bother with the rack, it sits fine on three rollers. If you’re just doing a short flat commute a used M3L will do the job.

 

[cougie uk]

Are you cycling any distance at the other end ? If you're not then just get a hack bike to leave at the station.

 

[Dwn]

When I worked in London, I had a flat bar Brompton and it was virtually perfect for the conditions there. It was pretty nippy in traffic, the three gears covered all I needed and the wheels gave a smooth ride. The front Ortlieb bag also carried all I needed. And the fold is fantastically convenient - much better than other folders I looked at.

On returning to Glasgow, I sold it. Didn’t need the fold (I was on trains a lot in my London job), and the small wheels were a problem on potholed roads, which is more of an issue than it was in London. I also found the 3 gears a bit limiting on the hills round here. I should say that the Brompton was no problem on rougher surfaces like canal paths - potholes were the issue.

Servicing didn’t seem any more expensive than my regular bikes, but that was for routine stuff - I didn’t have to replace anything.

Great little bikes, and I do slightly regret selling mine.

 

[berlinonaut]

Therefore I'm looking at folding bikes, specifically a used Brompton. These are surprisingly common here, but I'm obviously not going to have as much choice as I would in the UK, and when one comes up I'll need to get it fairly quickly, so I've a couple of questions for Brompton users:

A Brompton seems a valid choice for your needs. As you are from Germany I'd refer you to http://bromptonauten.de/forum.html - the forum is dedicated to the Brompton and exists for almost 20 years - a lot of knowledge there. Regarding buying a used one there is a very intensive guide hidden in the Bromptonauten Wiki, written by myself many years ago and thus outdated at some points but probably still helpful. Two things apart from that to have in mind when looking for a used bike:
1. A lot of older bikes are hopelessly overpriced by hundreds of Euros. Don't buy any of these.
2. There are a lot of fake adverts for used Bromptons, possibly 30% or more. Only buy a bike that you can pick up yourself and only pay at pickup.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Many thanks for the responses:

Andy, I dont know if this is any help. There is a Brompton Junction in Munich. My advice. Get the bigger wheels and get the rack. The rack is really useful as a stand and to carry gear, You can buy a wheel with the hub dynamo fitted. Changing the handlebar is expensive and a pain as you would need a new stem and cables. All the gearing is Brompton specific, as is most of the braking. Dont worry about the weight. It is easy to carry by hooking the saddle over your shoulder.

Now I know what to look for more specifically, although I'm unfortunately a long way from Munich there's a shop selling Bromptons in Freiburg so I can go and have a look.

Folders also come in other flavours as well.

I ride a Tern for precisely the same reasons as you and for roughly the same distance. The Tern has 20 inch wheels and rides really nicely...

...I don't know about how much room you have on your trains, but we have the double decker Bombardier trains here, so folded size is no problem, because the bike carriage is one whole deck. However if you don't have much room, then Brompton's are the way forward.

I hadn't looked closely at he Terns, but I must admit the Tern BYB Looks very good, and I'm tempted by the "normal" components which makes them in theory easier to swap.

The Bombadier double deck trains are being replaced by Desiro HC trains which are very strange things: the centre coaches are double deck but the driving carriages aren't, but they and most other new trains have lots of bike capacity, so I'm not too badly off for space. More important is the need for the bike to be small and unobtrusive in "peak" traffic so I don't get charged for a bike ticket.

I feel guilty for suggesting this, but if it's only 3 miles to the station, have you considered walking? Should only take about 45 mins?

The problem is that means 45 minutes there and 45 minutes back which is 1 1/2 hours of the day, every day, and I can ride to work in that time. The point of the folding bike would be to get me to the station quickly on rainy days.

Oh, and the organisations I'm likely to work for typically start at about 07:30...

 

[Andy in Germany]

The Brompton ride quality is actually pretty decent, despite its 16" wheels.

For some reason I thought they had a 20" wheel option, thanks for saving me a lot of searching...

Dynamo - I wouldn't say is a necessity, there are so many decent led lights around now. but as said above - you buy a specific wheel for it.

all the bars have specific stems to get the geometry correct. some people fit 3rd part low riser bars to the M type as compromise. I have the flat S type bars which I have to say put you in a more "normal" riding position than the M type

Gearing is all quite specific (its Brompton specific SA hub, and/ or proprietary 2 spd derailleur) although not particularly expensive to replace. The SA hub is very reliable, and the sprockets and chainrings are very cheap to replace.

Thanks for this info: Until recently a dynamo was a requirement to be street legal in Germany: I think that's now changed but I'd probably want it on the folder because I'm used to it now and would forget to change batteries or something...

Are you cycling any distance at the other end ? If you're not then just get a hack bike to leave at the station.

Not initially, but I may have to go to several different places which are further away from public transport, or to the local government offices in a different town so I'd end up having to catch a train past my apartment and three stations further to retrieve the bike then ride back to my apartment...

Also, I've been using a hack bike for years, continually putting off getting a folder every time circumstances changed, and I think it makes sense to finally get one and use the flexibility.

My Brompton has a rack and also EZ wheels. The wheels are very good for trundling the bike around when folded. The rack is not much use to me as a rack because I get heel strike if I put anything of any size onto it. If I used my Brompton more I'd get one of the big bags for the front, for carrying stuff which by all reports are very good.

IMO the rack isn't really worth having for its own sake because of the heel strike problem. However if it plays a role in providing of the wheels (I don't know I've never taken it off) then it's worth living with, because the little wheels are important. (Edit, having read the thread it seems the wheels are independent of the rack. I which case I wouldn't bother with it unless you have tiny feet) All IMO.

I'll have a look at that too, if I get a Brommie, thanks. I'll probably go for the rack on the basis it's better to have one and not use it than not have it and need one. We chose a long wheelbase Bakfiets for this reason many years ago and I haven't regretted it...

A Brompton seems a valid choice for your needs. As you are from Germany I'd refer you to http://bromptonauten.de/forum.html - the forum is dedicated to the Brompton and exists for almost 20 years - a lot of knowledge there. Regarding buying a used one there is a very intensive guide hidden in the Bromptonauten Wiki, written by myself many years ago and thus outdated at some points but probably still helpful. Two things apart from that to have in mind when looking for a used bike:
1. A lot of older bikes are hopelessly overpriced by hundreds of Euros. Don't buy any of these.
2. There are a lot of fake adverts for used Bromptons, possibly 30% or more. Only buy a bike that you can pick up yourself and only pay at pickup.

Very useful tips which may save me a lot of heartache and expense, thanks...

 

[12boy]

If you buy used....
The bushings in the hinge that allows the chainstays and rear wheel to come forward , are a PITA to replace and I have found tge plastic seatpost sleeve is too. A good rear hinge does not wiggle from side to side very much, if at all. The QR that holds the seatpost should be able to keep the post in place when riding when closed with 2 fingers. If a lot of fource is required the sleeve will need to be replaced. I would check those 2 things in particular and also the rims which can grind down faster than on a 700c wheel.
If it is flat where you are you could get by with a one or two speed rear hub. The luggage block on the head tube and any luggage with it are great. You can carry a lot on the front end and it just makes it ride better.
A word of warning.....I have found Bromptons to be really fun to ride. Your kids may pinch your B.

 

[jay clock]

in terms of handling the front end is very skittish. Substantially improved by the weight of a front bag

 

[All uphill]

Many thanks for the responses:



Now I know what to look for more specifically, although I'm unfortunately a long way from Munich there's a shop selling Bromptons in Freiburg so I can go and have a look.



I hadn't looked closely at he Terns, but I must admit the Tern BYB Looks very good, and I'm tempted by the "normal" components which makes them in theory easier to swap.

The Bombadier double deck trains are being replaced by Desiro HC trains; very strange things: centre coaches are double deck but the driving carriages aren't, but they and most other new trains have lots of bike capacity, so I'm not too badly off for space. More important is the need for the bike to be small and unobtrusive in "peak" traffic so I don't get charged for a bike ticket.



The problem is that means 45 minutes there and 45 minutes back which is 1 1/2 hours of the day, every day, and I can ride to work in that time. The point of the folding bike would be to get me to the station quickly on rainy days.

Oh, and the organisations I'm likely to work for typically start at about 07:30...

Another thumbs up here for a Tern or Dahon. I bought a Tern a few years ago and loved it. Not as cool as a Brompton, but much cheaper used, easy to work on and fun to ride. The fold isn't anything like as good as a Brompton, but I never had issues on trains here.

Pleased to hear positive sounds about the job!

 

[Randomnerd]

Another vote for front luggage over rear rack. Mine handles pretty poorly on uneven surfaces, but is much improved by a kilo or two in the front bag