Brompton clones

[berlinonaut]

I think it can probably be made twice as light with easier maintenance and possibly more reliability with some modern components, it makes me sad.

There are a lot of weight wheenie Brompton builds around. The current max. you can achieve when sticking to the factory steel/ti frame is (out of memory) a tad over 6kg for the bike. So about half of what a factory Brompton weights. But this goes along with loosing a lot of pracitcality (like fenders, robust tires, pedals for normal shoes, geared hubs etc.) and it won't be as robust as a normal Brompton) plus it costs a fortune - so not really practical for a factory build. If you want a bike that is usable in daily life with almost no limitations you can come down to about a tad less than 9kg. This will cost you just an arm instead of an arm and a leg, some limitations will still be there and probably for a factory build still not an adequate direction.

As you do own a Brompton already you can easily start yourself off into a new hobby: Making your Brompton lighter. Fascinating as well as healthy (as you will spend your money for parts you cannot spend it for pints in the pub) and you will make new friends and possibly learn new languages as well (as many tuning parts come from Asian shops and marketplaces).

 

[dimrub]

As you do own a Brompton already you can easily start yourself off into a new hobby: Making your Brompton lighter. Fascinating as well as healthy (as you will spend your money for parts you cannot spend it for pints in the pub) and you will make new friends and possibly learn new languages as well (as many tuning parts come from Asian shops and marketplaces).

I don't really need to. In fact, I made it heavier by installing a Brooks saddle on it. But I'm strong enough to carry it when needed. I'm sure there are people for whom Brompton is a non-starter due to its weight.

Half a weight may be an exaggeration, but here's a carbon knock off that supposedly weighs a pound less than a Ti 2-gear Brompton:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuNZ-hH5Zkk
- so what, 9.8kg? That's about 4 kg lighter than my M6L, I guess, but with the same gear range. Interestingly, the folding mechanism clamps seem to allow for faster and easier folding (though not necessarily as reliable). According to the guy in this review, this is not a junk bike, on the contrary, he points out quite a few benefits on top of the original in terms of handling (I do wonder about the bigger wheels - Brompton fits under a train seat, and it's a huge benefit, but just barely - 18 inch wheels would kill that).

So given that, I do wonder whether Brompton had tried to look at carbon components and decided against them (and if so, what was the reason) or didn't even look that way.

 

[berlinonaut]

so what, 9.8kg? That's about 4 kg lighter than my M6L, I guess,

A M6L should be considerably lighter than than 14kg. I ended up at ~14,5 kg with a former M6RD that I converted to S/A 8-speed (which added about 1 kg). Including SON dynamo hub and lights, rear rack, telescopic seatpost, Brooks B17, ergon grips and a full steel frame. So from factory w/o 8-speed, telescopic post, Brooks, rear carrier and dynamo lights I would assume you'd stay shortly below the 13kg mark.

According to the guy in this review, this is not a junk bike, on the contrary, he points out quite a few benefits on top of the original in terms of handling

As always there are upsides and downsides. I've never seen a Chedtech personally but the reviews of people who have ridden one or own one are very mixed. Personally, apart from other things ,the lack of the mounting point for the luggage carrier block alone makes this bike utterly useless to me.

So given that, I do wonder whether Brompton had tried to look at carbon components and decided against them (and if so, what was the reason) or didn't even look that way.

Personally, for a commuter folding bike that get's banged around all day in trains, car boots etc. I'd stay away from carbon as far as possible. But that's just a personal opinion.

 

[Yellow Fang]

I did hear Andrew Ritchie talk about the Brompton's weight. He said one issue was it had to be strong enough to bear a twenty stone man.

I am strong enough to carry a Brompton, but at railway stations you quite often have to carry them across bridges and concourses. That is quite a weight to lug around that far.

 

[Ian H]

Fillet brazing is usually a last resort for odd tube sizes and angles where you can't use a lug. It's labour-intensive, adds a fair bit of dead weight, and the brass isn't cheap either.

Peugeot's brazing didn't add much weight (I'm told the brazing was automated).

My Hallett for comparison.

 

[dimrub]

A M6L should be considerably lighter than than 14kg. I ended up at ~14,5 kg with a former M6RD that I converted to S/A 8-speed (which added about 1 kg). Including SON dynamo hub and lights, rear rack, telescopic seatpost, Brooks B17, ergon grips and a full steel frame. So from factory w/o 8-speed, telescopic post, Brooks, rear carrier and dynamo lights I would assume you'd stay shortly below the 13kg mark.

You are right! I went ahead and weighed it - it was a lousy luggage scale, but precise enough for the purpose, I think, and it showed 11.5 kg - much less than I remembered! Still, an almost 2kg difference is nothing to sneeze at.

As always there are upsides and downsides. I've never seen a Chedtech personally but the reviews of people who have ridden one or own one are very mixed. Personally, apart from other things ,the lack of the mounting point for the luggage carrier block alone makes this bike utterly useless to me.

I agree, this mounting point is one of the great features of Brompton. I'm thinking perhaps this fixture can be made integral to the carbon frame, so as to distribute the loads properly.

 

[shingwell]

I too strongly suspect that Brompton have tried all sorts of things in the lab. Just because all we see is new bags and special edition paint jobs coming out of the marketing dept doesn't mean they are not trying new things.

The trouble is anything new has to be at least as good as the "old way" and around the same price or cheaper. Even Bromptons are designed down to a price - compare with one of the "price no object" bikes and they start looking like good value.

Personally I wish they would do something about the weird twin selector 6 gear setup but even so I can see other solutions would be heavier or bigger or or less robust or affect the fold or be more expensive.

It's a damn good bike that has reached its weight / reliability / foldability / robustness / practicality / price-point compromises over decades of evolution, and is spot-on for its intended use cases.

 

[berlinonaut]

You are right! I went ahead and weighed it - it was a lousy luggage scale, but precise enough for the purpose, I think, and it showed 11.5 kg - much less than I remembered! Still, an almost 2kg difference is nothing to sneeze at.

I'd rather say that this is an astonishingly low difference, given the fact that the Bromton is made of lower end steel and fully equipped with mudguards and a steel seatpost whereas the the chedech is made of carbon (including stem and seatpost) and is not only lacking mudguards but also the eylets to mount them. The Brompton 6-speed and the S/A 5-speed on the chedtech are about par in terms of weight, the carbon seatpost saves a couple of 100 grams in comparison to the steel Brompton one, another bit comes from the lack of mudguards. So in the end the whole carbon action may bring in possibly a bit over 1kg. That's not much more than a factory ti-Brompton saves over a steel one and with a ti-Brompton you have a reliable manufacturer and a proven track record.

BTW: The Chinese ti-Brompton-clone mainframes save about 1kg of weight over the original (not counting in stem, forks and rear frame).

The chedech costs 2500$ according to their webpage (close to the bottom of the page just beyond the tech spec) and this does neither include shipping nor taxes. The latter will sum up considerably until the bike is imported and on your doorstep. If you live in Europe (possibly including the uk this time) you will probably not get it anyway as chedech lost a court case against Brompton and is legally considered to be an illegal copy.

If you look around on Chedech's webpage you'll find information like

* Originally pedal isn't included in this bike. But, we provide a pair of pedal as a service item when Dolce Vita is delivered.
* Various types of rims are applied for wheels. The rim shape of front wheel can be different from that of rear wheel. The logo on the rim of wheel can differ by unit. Some units have 'Chedech' logo on one wheel or both of two wheels. The logo on front wheel and that on rear wheel can be different.

In other words: It is a bit unclear what you will get. There are no accessories available and I do have my doubts about spare parts. The only model avail is for smaller riders, the bar seems to be more or less equivalent to a Brompton S heightwise. It does lack all the goodies for daily use as a commuter, nobody knows how long it (or the company behind it) will last, it is vastly expensive (despite being made in China) and it is illegal. Resale value will differ massively from that of a Brompton (to the negative) and the weight saving is not really impressive.

Chedech initially started out as a campaign on Indigogo in 2015 - which did not generate enough interest to succeed. A bit later there was an interesting discussion on the bikeradar forums where the chedtech founder himself was involved.

They may have had good intentions and high ambitions but in my eyes the product is nowhere near suffient and the carbon frame does not save weight to an amount that would be worth the risks in my eyes. Plus the optics is not my cup of tea as well.

 

[Kell]

I have an H6L and mine weighs in at 12.9kg - also on a luggage scale.

however, I've swapped out the handle bars and switched to SPD pedals, I don't know how they compare to the originals weight wise.

On top of those, I've added bar ends and a rear mudguard protector. I may also have had the lights on it when I weighed it. So you could probably subtract a few 100 grams off that figure for a factory bike.

 

[yoho oy]

I looked at Brompton clones before purchasing Brompton. The information is relatively scarce about them. Is it because all these clones are sold primarily in Asian markets and majority of owners don't speak English and don't post on social media? I came to a few conclusions - clones might be a bit heavier and might differ from Brompton. Also when you include shipping costs, tax they are not that much cheaper than Brompton. The third problem is that majority of them are sold on Aliexpress and some even less known websites. To spend £700-£800-£1000 on something than can get lost, damaged for me is too risky. The biggest problem are spare parts and support. How do you know if clones will be in business for a while? Where will you get spare parts? Some of them are dissimilar to Brompton's parts. Where to get any support if things go wrong? Exchange? Warranty? So there is a lot of things to think about. Sure, if clones were in a range of £200-£250, the risk would be smaller.

 

[Kell]

All good points. To me it would only be worth buying a clone if it was significantly cheaper or offered a genuine upgrade in some way.

Then having said that, I'm not sure I'd trust a cheap, folding bike from a dubious source. Would the R&D be good enough? Would a far-eastern brand be designed for a fat western bloke like me. Even Dahons are only rated to a maximum rider + luggage weight of 95kg. i only found this out after mine snapped - it was never pointed out to me during the buying phase at Evans.

I had a long chat with a guy in the Brompton Junction before taking the plunge and he told me that they're rated to 130kg - and that's to do with the brakes being able to stop you, rather than the strength of the frame.

 

[berlinonaut]

The chedech costs 2500$ according to their webpage
(...) nobody knows how long it (or the company behind it) will last

The biggest problem are spare parts and support. How do you know if clones will be in business for a while? Where will you get spare parts? Some of them are dissimilar to Brompton's parts. Where to get any support if things go wrong? Exchange? Warranty? So there is a lot of things to think about. Sure, if clones were in a range of £200-£250, the risk would be smaller.

Hum, yesterday Chedech's webpage was fully functional, today this is what you get when you follow the link to their homepage :

Let's hope that this is just a hickup and not final.

Edit/Update: It's back on. No https avail though...

 

[u_i]

Then having said that, I'm not sure I'd trust a cheap, folding bike from a dubious source. Would the R&D be good enough?

When buying parts by independent manufacturers, that are supposed to improve Brompton, it happened to me a number of times to realize that those manufacturers do not fully understand how the part is supposed to function. Yes, one of those manufacturers has been Litepro that now brands a Brompton clone. How are you to clone successfully when you struggle understanding the functions?!

 

[yoho oy]

Well basically when you buy something from a company, you are supporting the company to continue their business (with a few exceptions when some companies just want to grab your money and fold up as soon as they can). So I would like Brompton to continue their business. In that case we will be able to get parts, and support when needed. Brompton clones sell no less than £700. In fact it is probably more when you add shipping and taxes. £850 is B75... Sure, it is an entry model, quite stripped down and with some older generation components, but it is still a Brompton. Asian version clones have some differences and parts differ from one brand to another. There is very little support from any of the clone brands. It seems some of them include some extra parts in a box with a bike (probably just for some youtubers? but not with every order). Another question everyone should ask - why would some people in Asia would buy original Bromptons rather than clones? It is much cheaper for them to buy a clone. There are quite a few local bike shops selling clones. Better support, etc. I would say that in EU/UK it is better to buy different brand foldable bike. I liked Decathlon folders- Oxylane 100 is just £200. 120 is £250. At this price you really getting a lot of a bike. Parts, support, stores everywhere. On other hand these foldables are more aimed for people with cars and fold and store types. They are heavy. 3kg difference for a folder is a lot.

 

[tinywheels]

I got over the weight saving malarkey in my MTB days. Most people could do with losing the excess lard their carrying around on their lardy carcasses. Much cheaper than bling bits for your brompton.
If you're obsessed about losing a couple of grams on a mudgard stay,then you need professional help,in my opinion.
Anyone who uses this clever bike on a daily basis,in the environment it was designed for. Will attest to its superior quality's. It attracts those who appreciate its quirky nature.