Buying handbuilt wheels

[lulubel]

I'm planning to buy a steel frame (a Condor Fratello), and while I was contacting Condor, I asked them to quote for handbuilt wheels as well.

I know nothing about handbuilt wheels, so I just got a quote based on 8 stone rider, some very poor road surfaces, and commuting/day rides/light touring use. He came back with:

Regarding the wheels, I would suggest Shimano Tiagra hubs (32 hole), Condor Race rims (a high quality strong and lightweight double eyelet rim) and double butted spokes. For the pair, it would cost £209.96.

All I know is that's pretty close to the price of the ones I've been looking at. Does it seem reasonable? Does what he's recommended seem suitable for what I want to use them for?

 

[PK99]

in got 36 spoke (I'm 100kg) mavic open pro rims on Ultegra hubs from Harry Rowland a year ago for £265

 

[Kiwiavenger]

I got a 36 spoke wheel built around my current hub and cassette for £90 on a mavic rim.

 

[Crackle]

Spa do a good range but I can't advise which is best

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s178p0

 

[lulubel]

Thanks, guys. This is all great, but it doesn't mean anything to me. I still know practically nothing about wheels! Maybe I should have been more specific.

I've looked on Sheldon's site, and I understand double butted spokes are thicker at both ends and thinner in the middle. What are double eyelet rims? Are they rims with the right size holes for double butted spokes?

Are Shimano tiagra hubs a good choice?

Will these wheels be a better option for what I want to use them for than anything I could buy off-the-shelf for the same price?

It makes sense for me to order handbuilt wheels from Condor rather than someone else (unless they're ridiculously over-priced) because they'll have to be shipped to Spain, so they'll be shipped with the frame and it will save on shipping costs.

 

[PK99]

as with all these things, you get what you pay for, the wheels he is recommending are fine for the job but are "entry level", pay a bit more and you get much better.

Go for hand built (from condor) not "off the shelf"/factory built. I've broken spokes on every rear wheel i've had till i got and builts which are as true as the day i got them 2000 miles ago


Cribbing from the condor site:
Tiagra £14.99

A reliable rear hub for road cyclists ideal for touring or commuting wheelsets.​

Like those at the top-of-the-range, Tiagra road hubs feature labyrinth and contact seals to prevent the ingress of corrosion-causing dirt and water; this, along with the internal grease sleeve both increase durability and reduce service intervals​

Ultegra​

Ideally suited to performance riding and riders who will ride daily on poorly

.​

maintained roads. Improved sealing performance through the use of low friction Labyrinth and contact seals, and an internal grease sleeve. Special Boron Nitride machining process is applied to the cones for super smooth rotation.
£44.99

open pro rim

Lightweight, performance rim, a great investment for any serious racing or touring rider. After bending the rim, the rim joint is arc welded. The welded seam is then milled for a smooth finish. A welded and milled rim joint is extremely strong, eliminates shuddering when braking, and offers superior wheel balance. The Open Pro rim from Mavic is the benchmark in classic shallow rims. Comfortable and strong, a wheelset with an Open Pro rim is a great investment.
£43.99

condor rim

Perfect balance of durability, weight and price. Entry level road rim suitable for both training rides, commuting and touring. Ideal for single speed wheels or road wheel builds. Double eyelet structure provides strength for the most gruelling stretches of poor road​

£29.99​

 

[accountantpete]

Double butted spokes are thicker at the ends where most of the stress is applied and then made thinner in the middle to save weight. So you get a strong lightweight spoke.

The eyelets are the bits of metal in the rim that surrounds the hole where the nipple sits. Double eyelets means that the rim is a bit stronger.

The tiagra hubs will be fine.

At 8 stone you don't need a particularly strong wheel (those will cope with a 15st bloke)- it's more down to comfort I would have thought.

 

[lulubel]

Thanks, PK99 and accountantpete. It all makes a lot more sense now.

I don't want anything exotic or super light in the way of wheels, so I think I'll go with the ones Condor recommend. The most important thing for me is wheels that do their job with the minimum of fuss and, as you've both pointed out, I don't need wheels that are designed for someone twice my weight.

 

[I like Skol]

IMO Accountant Pete has got it nailed here.

You're a mere 8 stone so 36 spokes would be overkill. You want to avoid anything exotic like straight pull spokes or very low spoke counts (I'm not sure but I think some lightweight racing wheels have 24 spokes or some even less than 20?) so your wheels can be repaired by anyone anywhere, try getting a straight pull aero spoke in an emergency!

Eyeleted rims are rims where the spoke hole in the rim is reinforced with a crimped ring that the spoke nipple sits in. If the rim has a hollow cross section then the eyelet can be made very deep so it bridges the hollow void (double eyeleted) and puts the spoke tension onto the inner and outer walls of the rim.

I have been having a bit of a nightmare with wheels for the last 18 months after buying a hybrid bike that was supposed to have 36 spoke wheels. When I collected it I spotted that the wheels were only 32 spoke. I thought it wouldn't be a problem as I knew I wouldn't be abusing it like my mountain bikes but after 11 months the spokes started to rip out of the non-eyeleted rear rim. The warranty replacement wheels, another set of factory built wheels, started to come unlaced within 50-60 miles (nothing obviously wrong when they were fitted) and after the bike shop retensioned them ("they're as good as handbuilts now, they are") they have suffered with 4 snapped spokes in the next 800 miles. I have been replacing the spokes myself as I am not repeatedly returning to the shop just for that but have decided to build a set of my own wheels to the recipe that has worked on my mountain bikes so well for the last 2 decades.

mid-high range Shimano hubs
36 spokes Swiss DT double butted stainless spokes
Mavic double eyeleted rims

I have built maybe half-a-dozen sets like this and they have never flinched even when I throw my 14-16 stone carcass down the back of Jacob's Ladder at speed or spend some time in the park jumping on and off the benches. I can be a bit of a hooligan but if these wheels stand that kind of treatment from me on the mountain bike without even needing to be trued-up at any time then they will be fine on my road going hybrid with just the occasional bunny hop thrown in.

I suggest the wheels that Condor have recommended will be more than suitable for you provided the spokes are of good quality and the wheelbuilder is even half decent (I am a complete self taught amateur!).

 

[GrumpyGregry]

oh to be able to ride 32 spoke wheels.

Shimano hubs+DT Swiss spokes laced 3 cross+mavic welded rim=bombproof. imo/ime.

(unless the bomb is called GregCollins)

 

[Dags11]

I'm planning to buy a steel frame (a Condor Fratello), and while I was contacting Condor, I asked them to quote for handbuilt wheels as well.

I know nothing about handbuilt wheels, so I just got a quote based on 8 stone rider, some very poor road surfaces, and commuting/day rides/light touring use. He came back with:

​

All I know is that's pretty close to the price of the ones I've been looking at. Does it seem reasonable? Does what he's recommended seem suitable for what I want to use them for?

Nice of you to put the personal quote online, nothing sacred indeed.......

 

[ColinJ]

Nice of you to put the personal quote online, nothing sacred indeed.......

It's not exactly a state secret is it?

If Condor are happy to sell those wheels to lulubel for that price, why wouldn't they be happy to have another 50 CycleChatters phone them up and ask for the same wheels at the same price?

 

[I like Skol]

It's not exactly a state secret is it?

If Condor are happy to sell those wheels to lulubel for that price, why wouldn't they be happy to have another 50 CycleChatters phone them up and ask for the same wheels at the same price?

Exactly. if lulubel said something like 'Condor have offered me xxx wheels at £yyy.yy, is this a good price or are they having a larf?' It is hardly an unfair question to ask is it? It's called the free market, we are allowed to compare prices between various suppliers.

If Condor have subsidised the wheel price in view of the frame purchase then they are under no obligation to sell a set at that same price to the next Mr Joe Public that phones up for a pair but at least while they have a prospective customer on the phone they have a chance of making a sale!

 

[YahudaMoon]

Mavic Open Pro are a excellent rim. Im on my third set and it won't be long before my 105 hubs will be getting new Open Pro rims

Though they are a lightweight race rim and they don't wear well. You won't get much more than two years out of a pair if your doing 38km a day commute and climbing decending hills all day on Sundays in all weather. Remember wet weather cycling just eats away at rims, especially descending hills !

Personally I prefer them, though for a commute bike I would pick something more hard wearing with a little bit more weight at a cheaper price maybe if I was stuck for cash building a bike ? Though Open Pro on 105 with DT Swiss spokes are good

 

[Cyclist33]

I understood "double butted" with regard to spokes as being the other way round to how the term is used with frames... ie the ends are narrower and the thicker bit is the middle section of the spoke, presumably for stiffness? Certainly this was the case on my RS30s which were described as double butted on the spoke, but someone in the know said they should be classed as "swaged" - except most buyers wouldn't know what that meant but would think "double butted" sounded swanky as so many frames go on about same.

Stu