Cadence, Speed and hill climbing.

[Pedrosanchezo]

Some interesting reading for those interested. Should shed some light for those seeking answers. Hopefully.

http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/constant/functhresh.htm

And this for climbing technique etc:

http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/how/doiclimb.htm

 

[black'n'yellow]

Want to gain hill climbing strength?

No I don't - have you not read the thread..??

 

[GrasB]

The key to really fast hill climbing in physiological terms requires 3 things:

1. Maximising of muscular engagement during aerobic power production
2. Minimising of muscle mass (note this means reducing your absolute strength!)
3. Maximising blood oxygen capacity

It's worth remembering that your cardiovascular system is the weak link in all of this. Minimising your muscle mass reduces CV load for the same power, so there for by reducing your strength you actually increase your power production for prolonged climbing!

 

[marzjennings]

I can't believe that you are still not getting this - you now seem to have forgotten everything you were agreeing to on the earlier pages? I keep telling you - the 'stair' thing is an ANALOGY (look it up). It is not intended to be used as an actual physical measure or comparison. The fact that you cant ride your single speed up a mountain simply means you are not fit enough to do it - or you have gone beyond your aerobic capacity into anaerobic territory. Either way, it's not a strength issue.

Your leg strength is not a limiter in aerobic cycling. Remember, we are talking about aerobic cycling here - not sprinting, or your strange obsession with riding single speeds beyond your own capability. Seriously, we've already had this discussion.

You seemed to have missed the point where I agree with the analogy in regards to general cycling strength requirements. What I am stressing, and which you failed to understand, is that the analogy falls short in regards to the extreme powers limits required in cycling.

The discussion wasn't concluded with you being right. My opinion and those of many coaches is that strength training (whether on the bike or in the gym) is an important part of a cyclist's development. And as yet there is very little scientific knowledge to support either side of the argument.

 

[marzjennings]

Your not thinking about it, even on your 33% gradient the rise is only 4" every 1' set of stairs is nearer 100%+

Depends on how fast you want to climb that 33% gradient.

 

[Rob3rt]

This thread is so painful I am compelled to add to the pain by making a completely non-constructive post about how painful this thread is!

 

[oldfatfool]

Depends on how fast you want to climb that 33% gradient.

You are getting confused between Power and strength. The strength req'd to climb at 10mph and 1mph is the same, the power req'd is vastly different, see my earlier post re: cadence. also http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?id=5770&pg=fullstory

So in answer to the OP you are strong enough you just aren't fit enough ie you don't have the POWER

 

[black'n'yellow]

You seemed to have missed the point where I agree with the analogy in regards to general cycling strength requirements. What I am stressing, and which you failed to understand, is that the analogy falls short in regards to the extreme powers limits required in cycling.

give me an example (or two) of where someone might need such 'extreme power'......please.....

 

[marzjennings]

You are getting confused between Power and strength. The strength req'd to climb at 10mph and 1mph is the same, the power req'd is vastly different, see my earlier post re: cadence. also http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?id=5770&pg=fullstory

So in answer to the OP you are strong enough you just aren't fit enough ie you don't have the POWER

Really. Knocking out 150w at 90rpm, may get some to 1mph up 33% slope. Ramping up to 10mph using a crude calculation is about 10 times the power. You think a rider can knock out 1500w by just pedaling faster?

You can only rev a 80cc moped engine so far, after a point and to go faster you need a bigger engine.

 

[oldfatfool]

Really. Knocking out 150w at 90rpm, may get some to 1mph up 33% slope. Ramping up to 10mph using a crude calculation is about 10 times the power. You think a rider can knock out 1500w by just pedaling faster?

You can only rev a 80cc moped engine so far, after a point and to go faster you need a bigger engine.

Your just trolling aren't you? You can get an 80cc engine to rev a lot higher than a 3ltr diesel but I know which will get you up an hill faster,ie as more power.

 

[black'n'yellow]

Really. Knocking out 150w at 90rpm, may get some to 1mph up 33% slope. Ramping up to 10mph using a crude calculation is about 10 times the power. You think a rider can knock out 1500w by just pedaling faster?

You can only rev a 80cc moped engine so far, after a point and to go faster you need a bigger engine.

What - like a bigger heart and lungs, maybe..?? Oh, hang on - that's the same thing as fitness, isn't it. Anyway, congratulations - your utter cluelessness has now reached uncharted territory..

You still haven't answered my last question, by the way...

 

[marzjennings]

Your just trolling aren't you? You can get an 80cc engine to rev a lot higher than a 3ltr diesel but I know which will get you up an hill faster,ie as more power.

You may be able to rev a 80engine higher than a 3ltr engine, but at some point those additional RPM's do not add anymore power. That's why power bands peak at a given rpm depending on engine size. Same for cyclists, power does increase with cadence, but at some point (for some that maybe around 160rpm) power output starts to drop off.

It's a simple experiment, ride down hill in a low gear, at some point you will spin out. Can't spin faster to go faster. The only option then is the change up a gear and do more work.

 

[oldfatfool]

It's a simple experiment, ride down hill in a low gear, at some point you will spin out. Can't spin faster to go faster. The only option then is the change up a gear and do more work.

But that is not a lack of strength is it?

Anyway

 

[marzjennings]

What - like a bigger heart and lungs, maybe..?? Oh, hang on - that's the same thing as fitness, isn't it. Anyway, congratulations - your utter cluelessness has now reached uncharted territory..

You still haven't answered my last question, by the way...

You can fit a better air intake and add fuel injection, you can tune the crap out of small engine. You can develop an awesome VO2max, but if all that 'fitness' is just driving two skinny rubber bands and may need to work on that leg strength. Sometime

Your last question, the one regarding your lack of google skills. I am not getting into a copy/paste competition.

Plus you've never had to pull hard on your bars to push your pedals around (i.e. do more work than a single stair step)? Really?

 

[marzjennings]

But that is not a lack of strength is it?

Anyway

No, but it is an example of doing more work to produce more power rather than doing the same work but quicker.

I was countering to your point that there's no need to do more work, just pedal faster. Increasing cadence is only useful up to a certain point, after which more work needs to be done and potentially, as in climbing a hill, more strength is required. This is not rocket science.