Calling all Time Triallists

[lejogger]

Finding a position that is comfortable and fast is a never ending quest

That's an interesting way to look at it - I hadn't actually considered that you can be uncomfortable but fast. (Bearing in mind I've only entered a handful so far)

I guess I've always assumed that if you're not feeling comfortable then you're never going to be able to sustain any kind of quality output...

...But I suppose in TT there's a large element of finding an aero position and then getting used to it, rather than finding a comfortable position and then just bashing it out.

 

[Rob3rt]

There will always be a compromise, if all you ever do is 10's, then you will want to find the most aero, yet powerful position possible, possibly at the expense of comfort, because you can tough it out. But if you are going to be doing 50's etc, then you will have sacrifice something to get that comfort or you will fidget and in the extreme sit up.

If you are comfortable and aero, you will most likely be faster, because you won't be thinking about the discomfort. At the start of the season I raced a couple of 25's where 15 miles in all I wanted to do was sit up for some respite from the punishment the saddle was inflicting! Got a better saddle (Adamo), instantly went faster even though it screwed my previous aero position by encouraging me to rider further forward on the saddle (making me bunch up), even further than I had anticipated, when I fitted it, I assumed this would be the case and fitted it to compensate with that in mind, but it was even more extreme than expected.

 

[lejogger]

There will always be a compromise, if all you ever do is 10's, then you will want to find the most aero, yet powerful position possible, possibly at the expense of comfort, because you can tough it out. But if you are going to be doing 50's etc, then you will have sacrifice something to get that comfort or you will fidget and in the extreme sit up.

If you are comfortable and aero, you will most likely be faster, because you won't be thinking about the discomfort. At the start of the season I raced a couple of 25's where 15 miles in all I wanted to do was sit up for some respite from the punishment the saddle was inflicting! Got a better saddle (Adamo), instantly went faster even though it screwed my previous aero position by encouraging me to rider further forward on the saddle (making me bunch up), even further than I had anticipated, when I fitted it, I assumed this would be the case and fitted it to compensate with that in mind, but it was even more extreme than expected.

Just starting really so I don't know what my preferred distance will be yet... Only entered short ones this year but hoping for some more variety next season.

I really enjoy them (afterwards not during) but I feel miles away from where I want to be with regards to setup. At the minute I'm riding my road bike with old cheap aero bars so my position is very cobbled and changes weekly. Having said that, my road position is cobbled also (albeit in an educated manner).

If I go for a fit, do I get fitted for the road bike or for doing TTs on the road bike? Or both if that's possible?

Then I think about having a dedicated TT bike but i just can't justify the expense at this stage. My times are generally at the top of those competing on road bikes but below most on TT bikes, so therefore in that danger zone where getting brainwashed into thinking that a TT bike, skin suit and aero helmet will shed me minutes and fly me up the leader board is nagging at me.

This was the 5 on Tue - managed 11:38 (25mph ave)
What would 50mm rims save?
What would 100/80 rims save?
Then what would either of those on a TT bike save?

And what would a proper set up on my road bike save? Does there come a point when you just can't eek any more out of a road bike and have to make that switch to TT or can you replicate?

 

[Rob3rt]

Don't know the answers to your questions but a well fitting pointy dick lid might be worth ~20 seconds in a 10. I would always go for pointy hat in terms of 1st aero purchases. Easily one of the biggest savings and not THAT costly. Could also try shoe covers, I don't know if they make a difference, mine were about £10.

As for wheels, my disc is worth about ~30 seconds, not sure of the front wheels aero worth, but it sounds epic!

A road bike will get you most of the way there IMO. For me, a TT frame was mostly an indulgence, never come close to placing at an "open" event yet, best I have done is 7th (I did come 3rd once, but I don't count that as a true 3rd as it was in a restricted entry open event).

 

[VamP]

Don't know the answers to your questions but a well fitting pointy dick lid might be worth ~20 seconds in a 10. I would always go for pointy hat in terms of 1st aero purchases. Easily one of the biggest savings and not THAT costly. Could also try shoe covers, I don't know if they make a difference, mine were about £10.

As for wheels, my disc is worth about ~30 seconds, not sure of the front wheels aero worth, but it sounds epic!

A road bike will get you most of the way there IMO.

I think shoe covers are a placebo. I still put mine on though

For me skin suit (on order), pointy lid and disc covers for my PT wheel will get added to the mix over the winter. Together with position honing, and habituating. I need to find a reasonably comfy position, as one of my TT goals for next year is the Little Mountain (40 hilly miles).

What helmet did you choose and how did you go about it?

 

[HLaB]

Just starting really so I don't know what my preferred distance will be yet... Only entered short ones this year but hoping for some more variety next season.

I really enjoy them (afterwards not during) but I feel miles away from where I want to be with regards to setup. At the minute I'm riding my road bike with old cheap aero bars so my position is very cobbled and changes weekly. Having said that, my road position is cobbled also (albeit in an educated manner).

If I go for a fit, do I get fitted for the road bike or for doing TTs on the road bike? Or both if that's possible?

Then I think about having a dedicated TT bike but i just can't justify the expense at this stage. My times are generally at the top of those competing on road bikes but below most on TT bikes, so therefore in that danger zone where getting brainwashed into thinking that a TT bike, skin suit and aero helmet will shed me minutes and fly me up the leader board is nagging at me.

This was the 5 on Tue - managed 11:38 (25mph ave)
What would 50mm rims save?
What would 100/80 rims save?
Then what would either of those on a TT bike save?

And what would a proper set up on my road bike save? Does there come a point when you just can't eek any more out of a road bike and have to make that switch to TT or can you replicate?

When I asked a few questions about timing savings, somebody posted a link to a site which answered those specific questions; unfortunately I didnt bookmark it IIRC the general answer as tri bars save you 30s, discs 30s, pointy helmet 30sec and a proper TT frame 1-1:30mins. Well thats how I justify my cr@p times, because I have none of them

 

[Rob3rt]

I think shoe covers are a placebo. I still put mine on though

For me skin suit (on order), pointy lid and disc covers for my PT wheel will get added to the mix over the winter. Together with position honing, and habituating. I need to find a reasonably comfy position, as one of my TT goals for next year is the Little Mountain (40 hilly miles).

What helmet did you choose and how did you go about it?

I use a Giro Selector, because it repeatedly tests fast for other people, was on sale at Sigma Sport and it comes with 2 different fairings, so can accommodate a range of positions, so was likely to get somewhere that was at least okay with one of them.

 

[lejogger]

Don't know the answers to your questions but a well fitting pointy dick lid might be worth ~20 seconds in a 10. I would always go for pointy hat in terms of 1st aero purchases. Easily one of the biggest savings and not THAT costly. Could also try shoe covers, I don't know if they make a difference, mine were about £10.

As for wheels, my disc is worth about ~30 seconds, not sure of the front wheels aero worth, but it sounds epic!

But we're talking huge savings aren't we if that's true? Probably a minute just by wearing a helmet and swapping the wheels. Then skinsuit and position is probably another minute? (On a 10)

 

[Rob3rt]

I reckon based on my not all that vast experience, for a 25 mph rider, full TT rig (disc, deep section, skinsuit, shoecovers, aero lid etc) vs road rig such as yours, maybe worth 2-2.5 mins. Basically, I could probably do a mid 24 on my local 10 course on a road bike, riding the drops, but am seconds off a sub-22 minute ride on a TT rig in all the gear.

Remember, as you go faster, you might save more Watts wise from kit, but the return in terms of MPH or time saved can actually be less than for a slower rider so you might gain 30 seconds from something whereas someone who can do a 20 minute 10 will get less from it.

 

[VamP]

I just checked with club mates and almost everyone was cca 40 to 60 seconds down last night. That pushes my PB improvement into a theoretical 60 second zone just from frame change (no other change to previous). That's more in line with what I was expecting, and moderates somewhat my concerns about the current position. Also correlates nicely with what Rob3rt posted above.