Calling all Time Triallists

[User482]

You really a cantankerous type aren't you? Welcome to my thread

So, as well as creating a strawman because you failed to read what was written, you're now resorting to insult. It's a pity you've decided to be so unpleasant - we could have had a more productive debate, as I've been enjoying with Rob3rt.

 

[Rob3rt]

Really? I find that interesting, given their fame for attention to detail, and the marginal gains stuff.

I found the article here: http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/biggest-bang-for-your-buck-in-time-trial-equipment/

I guess what's heartening - if the article is correct - is that the amateur can make significant gains without spending a fortune.

Apparently:
http://audioboo.fm/boos/1260185-chris-froome-december-2012

https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/sta...gn=chrisfroome&utm_content=336836911501037569

Re. That article, that is one I have seen. It is okay but the wheel comparisons are rather odd, switching a rear disc out to a trispoke worth 29 seconds (over 40km in 48 mins)? Yet almost every serious tester rides a disc from amateur level through to pro, on both road and track. A deep section front wheel worth 42 seconds over a tri or 5 spoke? I can imagine it is faster under some circumstances, but that much?

 

[User482]

Apparently:
http://audioboo.fm/boos/1260185-chris-froome-december-2012

https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/sta...gn=chrisfroome&utm_content=336836911501037569

Re. That article, that is one I have seen. It is okay but the wheel comparisons are rather odd, switching a rear disc out to a trispoke worth 29 seconds (over 40km in 48 mins)? Yet almost every serious tester rides a disc from amateur level through to pro, on both road and track. A deep section front wheel worth 42 seconds over a tri or 5 spoke? I can imagine it is faster under some circumstances, but that much?

Thanks.

Yes, I didn't really understand the wheel comparisons, and it'd be interesting to see how a disc rear and deep section front compare to a bog standard set of Open Pros.

Though you can end up with received wisdom that isn't really true - remember that everyone used to race on superskinny tyres a few years back?!

 

[Rob3rt]

Thanks.

Yes, I didn't really understand the wheel comparisons, and it'd be interesting to see how a disc rear and deep section front compare to a bog standard set of Open Pros.

Though you can end up with received wisdom that isn't really true - remember that everyone used to race on superskinny tyres a few years back?!

I go about 40 seconds faster over 10 miles riding a disc and trispoke (with 22mm Conti Podium TT tubular tyres stuck on using tub tape) vs a set of Pro-Lite Bracciano's (with 23mm Conti GP4000s clincher tyres). At speeds on average of around 26.5 mph (with the disc and trispoke, slower with the other wheels obviously, else there wouldn't be a time saving ).

That article also seems to suggest that the gains would be smaller (but doesn't explicitly say this) for a "mortal". That is not strictly true as often a slower rider can realise a larger time saving from an item than a faster rider, because even though the W savings may be smaller, a smaller increase in power is needed for a relatively larger speed increase.

 

[Hacienda71]

What do you reckon your time saving over a ten is with a skin suit Rob? and do you think all tight fitting suits are equal or the megabucks ones substantially better?

 

[Sittingduck]

Nice - looking forward to pics of the completed build

 

[Rob3rt]

What do you reckon your time saving over a ten is with a skin suit Rob? and do you think all tight fitting suits are equal or the megabucks ones substantially better?

Not sure, I am riding in a Castelli San Remo Speedsuit which is sort of like a hybrid between a skin suit and a jersey and shorts combo atm. Basically it is like a skin tight jersey stitched to a pair of minimal seam aero bibs, so it still has pockets on the back, short sleeves etc. But it is very tight and it has some "aero features" like silicon dots on parts of it and a super smooth transition to your arms and legs and some sort of aero dimple stuff on the shorts. It is definitely worth something but not sure how much time, very comfy too. I will get a club speedsuit eventually, but waiting to get the opportunity to try one on to make sure I get a good fit as they cost a lot.

Some skinsuits are definitely better than others. The megabucks ones tend to have dimple fabric and minimal seams and a shorter cut in the front (they feel really tight if you try to stand upright) so they don't wrinkle when you get in the aero position . Something like a Castelli Bodypaint speedsuit is probably hard to beat.

 

[VamP]

So, as well as creating a strawman because you failed to read what was written, you're now resorting to insult. It's a pity you've decided to be so unpleasant - we could have had a more productive debate, as I've been enjoying with Rob3rt.

Cantakerous and easily insulted. Perfect combination

Did you not open your presence in this thread with ''The TT frame, wheels etc only give you a very small aero advantage over ordinary road kit.'' ?

Whereas in fact it is the TT frame that gives (by virtue of the position it enables) the best gains. So where's the strawman?

However, let's assume that you are indeed interested in a ''more productive debate''. That article you linked seems to be comparing the tri-bars to an upright position. It's difficult to know what they mean by that exactly, but when I time trial on my road bike (no clips - I hate them on an aesthetic level) I am definitely a long way off upright. I tend to emulate the clip on position with my forearms balancing on the handlebar, and sitting on the very tip of the saddle - so the improvement from fitting tri bars would for me be fairly insignificant.

The other thing that jumped out at me was that the skinsuit they used was extremely expensive. Most people would ride in something more like their club skinsuit, made by the likes of Endura to a sub £100 budget. The difference between that and regular cycling clothes would not be so dramatic.

The rest of the gains seem broadly right, with the additional comment that a disc rear wheel gains are sensitive to the yaw angle, and in certain conditions can be significantly more than that, as the disc acts like a sail to tail winds.

 

[User482]

Cantakerous and easily insulted. Perfect combination

As I said, it's a pity that you're so unpleasant.

Did you not open your presence in this thread with ''The TT frame, wheels etc only give you a very small aero advantage over ordinary road kit.'' ?

No. I said "I seem to recall reading that"

Whereas in fact it is the TT frame that gives (by virtue of the position it enables) the best gains. So where's the strawman?

I've already acknowledged the advantage of a TT position, though you've yet to demonstrate that it gives the best gain. Just because you claim something is a fact, it doesn't make it so.

However, let's assume that you are indeed interested in a ''more productive debate''.

Yes, I've been having one with Rob3rt.

 

[bianchi1]

Isn't the best advantage per £ ment to be Lycra overshoe covers. Only around £20 quid and must help with aerodynamics.

The fast guy In my clubs TT's rarely uses a disk on the rear, but an extremely deep section rim. Easier to get moving on moderately hilly and turn heavy courses.

The biggest change for me was getting a deep (ish) section front rim. But to be honest one or two pints less a week would probably help....but hey, it's all about perspective. There's always someone quicker!

 

[VamP]

Nice - looking forward to pics of the completed build

No such luck mate.

There are going to be interim pics of the partial build as well

 

[VamP]

Family holiday got in the way of the build, but finally this last weekend I managed to get some time.

 

[Rob3rt]

Going to get it built just in time for the season to be over Get a shift on!

 

[VamP]

On the face of it not a huge amount of progress, but the internal cable routing was a huge faff, resulting in many F bombs getting dropped. Finally had to resort to the hoover/thread trick. Now this is out of the way, the rest should be fairly straightforward.

 

[VamP]

Going to get it built just in time for the season to be over Get a shift on!

Yeah time is my biggest enemy. I feel like I am running out of time on many fronts.

I am one point away from 3rd cat, so should focus on road. I am in the run-up to my A event in MTB XC at Hadleigh Farm in two weeks time, so should focus on MTB. The cross season begins in less than a month, and I have two cross bikes in bits that require a full rebuild. The TT bike needs building, and then the position dialling in. And on top of that we're expecting a baby in September.


I need a sabbatical