Carbon repair: what would you do..?

[Monsieur Remings]

Well, after a week or so of pondering I took my Ribble to the LBS with suspected fractures on either side of the bottom chainstay where the stay meets the dropout. The photos below show these fractures on either side in exactly the same place. The response wasn't good with both mechanics - whom I trust implicitly - not being able to say that it wasn't a crack. So I ride home and get onto Ribble who were useless, telling me that my warranty was out; I bought the bike in 2011 and there is a poxy 2 year warranty on the bike/frame.

So, I look at the repair option and both Surrey Carbon Bike Repair and Carbon Bike Solutions (CBS) of Derbyshire seem pretty positive. The Derbyshire chap I spoke to went as far as to say it may only be a paint crack; the Surrey chap, who was very quick to get back via email wrote, and I quote 'The lug (carbon or alloy) is de-bonding from the seat stay. It is not bad at the moment but in time this additional movement will start to damage the chain stay and so on.'

So, first question, has anybody had this issue before in this part of the bike and what was the outcome.I don't think either of the guys are wrong - far from it - but I also know there's a lot of knowledge and experience here and wondered what cyclechatters think..?

If I go through the Surrey chap this is the situation, again I quote from email: 'If we don't see a problem the inspection is £50. If we see a need to restore the stay, and if it is possible then the total fee will be in the region of £150 from experience.' This was after seeing the photos.

So, the most it will cost if either does need work beyond an inspection is around £150 but this is a 3 year old frame - I know that's not old...but worse case scenario and I have to dish that out, is it worth it? In other words what would you do? You could buy a second hand frame for around £250, some new for a bit more. Whilst it seems a waste, the problem really is that in order to inspect the carbon fibre I'm already dishing out money which would seem pointless if I don't go the whole hog...

I know ultimately it's my decision but what would you guys do? The pictures are below.

 

[TissoT]

I would use the bike/frame on a home turbo trainer only ... And buy a new frame/bike

 

[MikeW-71]

Ask yourself the question: "How long should a bicycle frame last?".

Bear in mind that there are loads and loads of people on here with bikes more than 10 years old whose frames have not fallen to bits. 3 years is not acceptable. If the dropout is debonding, that's a manufacturing fault and the frame is not of satisfactory quality.

Keep the email that the Surrey chap sent you and write to Ribble enclosing a printout of that email and ask them what they intend to do about it. Use the term Not Of Satisfactory Quality. If they still don't want to know you can take them to court for either a replacement frame or the cost of repair.

It may be worth sending it for inspection and ask for a written report on the damage and what is causing it. That can be sent to Ribble too.

 

[Hacienda71]

I can't comment on your particular crack but you can get cracks that are in the filler around joints in a carbon frame. I have some on my frame that appeared early on, I marked them to monitor if they changed and 10000 miles later no change.
All that said for peace of mind get it professionally checked. The guy in Derbyshire has a good rep. Friends know him and recommend him.

 

[Smokin Joe]

The fact that the crack does not join (It seems to be starting to spiral) would make me think it was more likely to be paint than the material itself. Why don't you remove the paint round the area and see what's underneath? White is an easy colour to touch in again.

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Some great replies already, thanks folks.

MIke, I hear what you're saying but the warranty is two years and in court I'd be asked why I bought a frame that only had a 2 year warranty. I think legally they're covered and whilst I respect your stance, it's difficult until I know what it is. And Smokin Joe may be right, it may be just paint.

Joe, what would I be looking for? Presumably damage to the weave itself?

Hacienda, thanks for the feedback on CBS, I shall bear that in mind when it comes to making a decision.

 

[Mr Celine]

... what would you guys do? The pictures are below.

I'd focus on the frame rather than the doormat.

 

[User33236]

What Mike is saying is that you would expect a bike to last a reasonable length of time in a reasonable condition. In the case of a bike you would expect this to be a pretty reasonable number of years. If yours has not you have recourse via the sale of goods act.

 

[fossyant]

That's just paint surface crack ! SIMPLE It's not like a fracture. Paint is brittle, and with an alloy/carbon bond you may get cracks like this.

Seen it before... a member here had this on a Spesh Roubaix and it's never got worse.

With steel you will get corrosion of the frame/paint , with alloy you will get paint bubbling. Alloy surface stuff looks a damn sight worse than a bit of paint crack. or rust...

 

[MikeW-71]

MIke, I hear what you're saying but the warranty is two years and in court I'd be asked why I bought a frame that only had a 2 year warranty. I think legally they're covered and whilst I respect your stance, it's difficult until I know what it is. And Smokin Joe may be right, it may be just paint.

No you wouldn't. You'd only need an expert report stating that it isn't damage that you have caused and it's a defect of manufacture. I'd be expecting a bike frame to last a minimum of 10 years, particularly a carbon frame that doesn't rust or fatigue. If it is a defective frame, Ribble should be paying to get it sorted regardless what the warranty length is.

If the frame was 6 years old, then you no longer have that route, and you would just have to pay for repair or replace it.

If I understand the process correctly, the dropouts are an aluminium piece that is glued into the ends of the seatstays and chainstays. Sometimes there will be a filler applied to smooth the join, then it is painted. The filler may have cracked (not structural, frame is OK) or it may just be a paint crack (also OK), or the glue has let go (not something that should happen, but it's serious).

 

[Cuchilo]

Ive just had the same problem with a machine for work . I paid for it to be fixed once and its showing signs of breaking again . I took it back to the shop and told them I can get a new machine made to my spec for what has been paid out already . The cost of another repair makes it a machine I need to get rid of as its costing me money .
I would rather cut my losses than throw good money at a bad thing .
I'm not saying your bike is bad but I would be asking Ribble if they could tell me what the cracks are .

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Thanks again people.

Fossyant, I hope you're right but both sides?

User33236, thanks, I hear what Mike is saying and if this is bad news (which I'll only know post-inspection) I will take his and your advice. And Mike, thanks again and once decided on which carbon fibre repair place to use - I have now sent pictures to a 3rd company - I will ask them straight whether this is down to a defective frame; they'd have seen this kind of thing before and will probably know more than me about the likely result of any legal action or what chance I stand etc. Your input is much appreciated.

And fossyant, or anyone, I've heard that if you use a pen to go over the existing crack that you can check whether it gets any worse. BUT, surely if it was only a paint crack, then a paint crack could also get worse, or no?

 

[S.Giles]

Do you know a friendly dentist or vet who could x-ray it for you? I'm not sure what you would see, but if they do it for a reasonable cost, nothing much would be lost. At very least, it would be interesting! If it turns out to be a surface paint crack, just ignore it.

 

[400bhp]

Ask yourself the question: "How long should a bicycle frame last?".

Bear in mind that there are loads and loads of people on here with bikes more than 10 years old whose frames have not fallen to bits. 3 years is not acceptable. If the dropout is debonding, that's a manufacturing fault and the frame is not of satisfactory quality.

Keep the email that the Surrey chap sent you and write to Ribble enclosing a printout of that email and ask them what they intend to do about it. Use the term Not Of Satisfactory Quality. If they still don't want to know you can take them to court for either a replacement frame or the cost of repair.

It may be worth sending it for inspection and ask for a written report on the damage and what is causing it. That can be sent to Ribble too.

You could but don't expect to get far.

 

[cd365]

Tweet or Facebook the pictures to Ribble, companies tend to react better if lots of people can see how they handle this sort of issue.