mickle
innit
- Location
- 53.933606, -1.076131
That, my friend, is a very good guess, but no.
Chain lubrication, the balance of pros versus cons
- Thread starter silva
- Start date
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- Tags
- chain lubrication
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As said, I ceased lubricating completely.
It's now 6 weeks further, and still running, one small retensioning needed.
Friday along the road (I started to make that a habit as to teach lessons hard as to not forget them
) I flipped the rear cog again, due to visible hook shape of teeth.
The chain was mounted early 2020.
It's now 19-20 months later, a new record (previous was 18).
The remarkable part of the story is that the rate of lenghtening dramatically dropped since I started to minimalise lubrication.
The rear cogs teeth became quite short, so I'm probably in risk of break along the road. But I have my previous 2 worn and before break replaced cogs with me, so I can replace and at least get back home with only that work.
Nevertheless in meantime I added all new drivetrain components to my luggage. Chainring, chain, cog. So if the break happens when in fair weather/road/moment conditions, I just replace all.
I'll see what it gives.
Never ran parts till failure before.
Start 2020 I intended to also replace chainring but changed mind when mounting new chain and cog.
And look, I got another chain life out of it.
Maybe I again leave it on.
Who was it here again, couple years ago? Made a topic claiming that a worn cog cannot wear a chain more. I could understand the reasoning. That the replaced chain lasted as long as the old, now proved it in practice. At least for my fixed gear and components case.
What I don't know is the risk associated with a tooth or teeth breaking off while peddling.
Things tend to break at max applied forces. So bridge up and/or heavy load or so. Maybe if teeth start to appear very fragile, I'll change mind and replace still.
As said, I'll start the new drivetrain without lubrication. The chain is delivered with a white grease on it. Last year soon after replacement I was forced to oil it due to rust. But now I have a rain cover over it. So the option is now there.
It's now 6 weeks further, and still running, one small retensioning needed.
Friday along the road (I started to make that a habit as to teach lessons hard as to not forget them
) I flipped the rear cog again, due to visible hook shape of teeth.The chain was mounted early 2020.
It's now 19-20 months later, a new record (previous was 18).
The remarkable part of the story is that the rate of lenghtening dramatically dropped since I started to minimalise lubrication.
The rear cogs teeth became quite short, so I'm probably in risk of break along the road. But I have my previous 2 worn and before break replaced cogs with me, so I can replace and at least get back home with only that work.
Nevertheless in meantime I added all new drivetrain components to my luggage. Chainring, chain, cog. So if the break happens when in fair weather/road/moment conditions, I just replace all.
I'll see what it gives.
Never ran parts till failure before.
Start 2020 I intended to also replace chainring but changed mind when mounting new chain and cog.
And look, I got another chain life out of it.
Maybe I again leave it on.
Who was it here again, couple years ago? Made a topic claiming that a worn cog cannot wear a chain more. I could understand the reasoning. That the replaced chain lasted as long as the old, now proved it in practice. At least for my fixed gear and components case.
What I don't know is the risk associated with a tooth or teeth breaking off while peddling.
Things tend to break at max applied forces. So bridge up and/or heavy load or so. Maybe if teeth start to appear very fragile, I'll change mind and replace still.
As said, I'll start the new drivetrain without lubrication. The chain is delivered with a white grease on it. Last year soon after replacement I was forced to oil it due to rust. But now I have a rain cover over it. So the option is now there.
Since the bottom bracket based eccenter tensioner arrived at its front position so not able to tension further, and with short worn sprocket teeth, last sunday 3 october I replaced the chain with a new one, while keeping the worn sprockets.
The drivetrain all of sudden went completely silent.
I replaced with the same model motorcycle chain Regina 420 Urban orox, a 1/4" wide chain, delivered greased with a white substance.
The first one I mounted, early 2020, thus held out almost 21 months.
About lubrication then, my subject here, empirical confirmation: since I ceased putting a drip oil on the rollers, the wear rate drastically reduced. The days before the replacement last sunday, I rode hours through heavy wind and rain, causing the chain to become wet despite my cover. The rain (just like oil did) "cleaned" the internals of the chain, drove particles out, which in turn allowed the links to separate more.
So this proves the theory yet another time: worn off (and/or external?) particles sit between chain parts mating surfaces, and stay there due to friction, until a lubricating liquid reduces the friction so that they become mobile and are driven out.
Since my chain rain cover isn't a complete cover, far from, just some small angle on the vertical, rust stays a problem, being also the reason that after my first try of this motorcycle chain, I was forced to lubricate.
So I now tried something else: a thick grease that I bought some years ago in a metalware shop, dirtcheap 1.5 euro each, 2 canisters, labeled as rust protection and antiseize of aircraft and other outdoor application door hinges.
I bought it as bolt thread rust protection, for ex for the 6 bolts of my rear disc cog. It lubricates "a little" - it's too viscous to flow into inner parts of the chain links.
I smeared the grease on the chain using a finger.
It's now a week, have been in wind and rain again, 2 times, no rust.
Unlike last year, where I had to retension the new chain quite alot the first ride after oiling as rust protection (and implicitly also lubrication of internals). I had to retension just a little bit over the entire week.
I'll see what it gives. The lubrication or whatever that white smear is for, is and will stay thus solely the one delivered by the manufacturer of the chain.
The first next question to be answered is how long the worn sprockets will last further.
It's the third chain for the Velosolo 1/8" chainring, and the second for their bolt on disc cog. The disc cog is likely the first fail, by a tooth breakage. Since the chain pitch is now the one of a new chain, likely the load isn't divided anymore over several cog teeth, just one.
But that's unsure, since it's a heavy chain and as before, something is out of center causing chain tension to fluctuate quite alot during a cranks rotation. Fact is that the drivetrain, despite the very worn sprockets, runs totally silent. I again surprise other cyclists, even when resisting the pedals to slowdown, which had become so noisy that people looked backwards to see what was coming after them lol.
The drivetrain all of sudden went completely silent.
I replaced with the same model motorcycle chain Regina 420 Urban orox, a 1/4" wide chain, delivered greased with a white substance.
The first one I mounted, early 2020, thus held out almost 21 months.
About lubrication then, my subject here, empirical confirmation: since I ceased putting a drip oil on the rollers, the wear rate drastically reduced. The days before the replacement last sunday, I rode hours through heavy wind and rain, causing the chain to become wet despite my cover. The rain (just like oil did) "cleaned" the internals of the chain, drove particles out, which in turn allowed the links to separate more.
So this proves the theory yet another time: worn off (and/or external?) particles sit between chain parts mating surfaces, and stay there due to friction, until a lubricating liquid reduces the friction so that they become mobile and are driven out.
Since my chain rain cover isn't a complete cover, far from, just some small angle on the vertical, rust stays a problem, being also the reason that after my first try of this motorcycle chain, I was forced to lubricate.
So I now tried something else: a thick grease that I bought some years ago in a metalware shop, dirtcheap 1.5 euro each, 2 canisters, labeled as rust protection and antiseize of aircraft and other outdoor application door hinges.
I bought it as bolt thread rust protection, for ex for the 6 bolts of my rear disc cog. It lubricates "a little" - it's too viscous to flow into inner parts of the chain links.
I smeared the grease on the chain using a finger.
It's now a week, have been in wind and rain again, 2 times, no rust.
Unlike last year, where I had to retension the new chain quite alot the first ride after oiling as rust protection (and implicitly also lubrication of internals). I had to retension just a little bit over the entire week.
I'll see what it gives. The lubrication or whatever that white smear is for, is and will stay thus solely the one delivered by the manufacturer of the chain.
The first next question to be answered is how long the worn sprockets will last further.
It's the third chain for the Velosolo 1/8" chainring, and the second for their bolt on disc cog. The disc cog is likely the first fail, by a tooth breakage. Since the chain pitch is now the one of a new chain, likely the load isn't divided anymore over several cog teeth, just one.
But that's unsure, since it's a heavy chain and as before, something is out of center causing chain tension to fluctuate quite alot during a cranks rotation. Fact is that the drivetrain, despite the very worn sprockets, runs totally silent. I again surprise other cyclists, even when resisting the pedals to slowdown, which had become so noisy that people looked backwards to see what was coming after them lol.
Something new to me.
They did it by holes inside the rubber teeth, with some (4?) stainless steel pins throughout 2 belt parts that together form a V-shape.
Abit alike the cotter pin principle, or a rivet. In case the latter, likely not removable and requiring some special tool. But then the belt cannot be removed from the bike without cutting / destroying it?
One could see the idea as a partly return to a steel roller chain.
I wonder about those stainless steel pins. Stainless steel, the common / cheapest grades, is quite soft. And, 304 or A2 is quite prone to road salt. I have doubts about the cost / benefit ratio of the idea.
It's probably a2/3xx stainless, it's susceptible to road salt corrosion only in conjunction with ordinary steel and aluminium. The AL/304 combination is horrible. Not a new idea either. Remember seeing it in 2010ish in TV. Never caught big on as virtually no DIY single speed or hub geared builder would consider belt drive due to sprocet cost. And shop bought bikes will have split frame.
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SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
I really don't get why some insist on flogging the bicycle belt drive dead horse. No amount of flailing will bring the beast back to life. It's an engineering dead end, because there is a much cheaper and more practical method of power transmission - a Renold chain.
They'll be suggesting shaft drives with bevel gears next - which actually could be practical on "use and abuse" public hire bikes with internal hub gears.
They'll be suggesting shaft drives with bevel gears next - which actually could be practical on "use and abuse" public hire bikes with internal hub gears.
Years ago I saw something that I didn't forget.
In a secondhand stuff shop, I purchased a rosy rather big quartz stone alike looking stone, just for decorative purpose.
At least, at the time, I thought it was such stone.
It wasn't, but I only found out much later, when seeing another on a flea market, and asking what it was.
It was a so called "salt lamp".
But back to the begin: I put the stone on a board of a furniture.
Soon I discovered that the board became wet under it.
Kinda condensation, I assumed due to the cold touch of the stone, that made water condense on its surface.
So I decided to put it in a stainless steel bowl from the kitchen.
With the idea to use the stone to make the room air less humid, and now and then empty the bowl.
But it wasn't necessary to empty it.
The water, with salt in it, had fret out holes in its bottom.
Just to say: A2 stainless doesn't need ordinary steel or aluminium to rust in a salt environment.
You're right in a non salt environment. For ex, if you use a common steel washer with a stainless bolt, the latter will corrode on its contact surface with the former, because the contact prevents the formation of the protective layer that stainless steel forms.
Chislenko
Veteran
I took my winter bike out for the first time in six months.
Prior to going out I put my bike in the stand, gave the chain some lube and ran through the gears whilst hand turning the pedals.
However despite all that chain lube when I got out on the road it didn't stop the front mudguard from catching on the tyre 😃
Prior to going out I put my bike in the stand, gave the chain some lube and ran through the gears whilst hand turning the pedals.
However despite all that chain lube when I got out on the road it didn't stop the front mudguard from catching on the tyre 😃
Stainless in kitchen utensils is 409/408, not a2. A2 is marine grade, designed to withstand sea water...
Nothing quite true:Stainless in kitchen utensils is 409/408, not a2. A2 is marine grade, designed to withstand sea water...
https://www.goebelfasteners.com/types-of-stainless-steel-a2-vs-a4-or-304-vs-316/
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/article/253/types-of-stainless-steel.html
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/marine-grade-metals/
Ok made a bubu with A2/marine.
All stainless steel found in my kitchen are highly magnetic, from knives through bowls to cooker hob and sink. Definitely not 3xx grade.
Only cheap and nasty kitchen sink from Screwfix is non(barely)magnetic.
GuyBoden
Guru
- Location
- Warrington
Over lubrication of the drivechain can lead to an excessive build up of black gunk, if not cleaned regular. This black mixture of lube and detritus could be worse that not lubricating, in extreme circumstances, IMO.
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Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
Thank you for getting this thread back on its sprocket (straying off into Chloride Induced Stress Corrosion Cracking (use 316 bolts not 304 in a maritime operating environment)).
Can I ask what you mean by "cleaned" and "regular" (aka frequent?), Guy?
Oil and wipe; Oil and wipe. How much cleaning effect do think such a regime has? If done daily (say) is that "over-lubrication"? Would it be worse than not lubricating.
