Chain maintenance

[Philz2002]

Hi. First post here. 35 and fairly new to cycling. I've followed advice from a colleague for the last year but just took my bike in for a service and was told my advice was out of whack. I'm wondering if someone might clear a few up for me.
1. I've used muc off for cleaning and lube. Store says that it's far too agressive and eats away at my parts. Soap and water much better apparently.
2. I thought chains lasted a year - 18 months. Mine needed changing. Had stretch quite far and rear cogset needed replacing also.
3. How much lube do i need, really?
4. I've used a paintbrush to get between links on my bike. Get them nice and clean. Bike shop told me this was unnecessary.

I'm wondering if I've been given some sage advice or if the shop is taking me for a ride. No pun intended.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[CanucksTraveller]

1: Muc off is fine, it doesn't eat parts. Neither does any other bike cleaner or degreaser, all of them are fine. Soap and water are fine too.
2: I've had a Trek bike (amongst many others) for ten years now and it's never needed a new chain or casette, sounds iffy advice but mileage is key here. Are you very high mileage? If so, then a chain might need replacing in a year, but a casette? Highly unlikely.
3: Not much, drip some on each link, wipe off excess. A small bottle should last a year or two, maybe more.
4: I also use a paintbrush when I fully clean the drive train, and it's not a rare habit - lots do it. It's debatable whether it's strictly necessary but I like to do it and get the chain looking nice and clean once in a while.

Welcome!

 

[Philz2002]

1: Muc off is fine, it doesn't eat parts. Neither does any other bike cleaner or degreaser, all of them are fine. Soap and water are fine too.
2: I've had a Trek bike for ten years now and it's never needed a new chain or casette, sounds iffy but but mileage is key. Are you high mileage? A chain might need replacing in a year if so, a casette? Unlikely.
3: Not much, drip some on each link, wipe off excess. A small bottle should last a year or two, maybe more.
4: I use a paintbrush when I fully clean the drive train, and it's not a rare habit. It's debatable whether it's strictly necessary but I like to do it and get the chain looking nice and clean once in a while.

Welcome!

Cheers for the response. I think i must have just been given some cheap arse parts. If I live to be a thousand years old, I'll never buy a bike online again

 

[CanucksTraveller]

Hmm, not sure I understand now... Which cheap parts were you given? Was this an eBay used bike or something?

I've bought (new) bikes both online and in bike shops and never had significant issues. One broken brifter (a Tiagra lever on a Giant bought online which failed after a few months) but that was within warranty, and replaced without quibble.

 

[mjr]

1. Muc off and similar degreasers will leave any steel parts exposed to rust. Fine on the frame of an aluminium or carbon bike but keep it away from bolts and other steel bits as much as you can. Car shampoo with wax is still better if you've got the time to use it, but any clean is better than none of not.
2. Mileage matters, not time. Modern thin chains don't last as long as single speed or hub gear ones.
3. See above. Or search for the Mickle method.
4. Up to you. It doesn't hurt.

 

[Philz2002]

Hmm, not sure I understand now... Which cheap parts were you given? Was this an eBay used bike or something?

I've bought (new) bikes both online and in bike shops and never had significant issues. One broken brifter (a Tiagra lever on a Giant bought online which failed after a few months) but that was within warranty, and replaced without quibble.

Bought Vitus nucleus 275 from chain reaction cycle. Brand new. Took care of the chain, though admittedly added too much lube at times. Rode for somewhere between 300 and 500 miles over the first year.
From what I'm reading, this is an awful low mileage for replacemrnt

 

[PaulSB]

You will get numerous opinions on this and here is mine!

1. Any degreaser will strip the lube from your, cassette and rings. I use it but only occasionally and when I do it is with a LOT of water. If a chain, cassette and rings are kept properly clean then degreasing should only be an occasional need. By keeping the drive train clean I find hot soapy water is all I need to use, I use a car shampoo again I rinse with a LOT of cold water. Once you have cleaned correct lubing is essential as if you don't the whole mechanism is exposed to the potential to rust.
2. Chains don't need replacing every 12-18 months they need replacing when they are worn out. This is dependent on mileage and maintenance. I ride +/- 7500 miles/year and get through two chains and one rear cassette every 12-18 months per bike. I have three bikes, summer, winter and spare (!). As my mileage is spread over two bikes the change point varies and is not strictly every 12 months. If I rode the full 7500 on one bike I'd expect to use two chains and one cassette each year. I'm one of those who subscribe to the view fitting a new chain to a worn cassette is bad news. Not all will agree with me. My LBS, in whom I have a great deal of faith, are of the same opinion.
3. To keep your drive chain clean and working well you need a small amount of quality lube appropriate to your riding style and local conditions. Again there will be differing views
4. I use a toothbrush and rag when cleaning if it's needed. I also drag a bit of rag through any gaps which look really dirty. I'd say your LBS is wrong on this. Whatever method you find works for removing muck is the correct one for you

As for cleaning below is my approach which is basically the Mickle method:

• Thoroughly degrease the chain, rings and cassette on the first occasion and flush with cold water
• Wash with hot soapy water
• Thoroughly flush with cold water
• Lift the rear wheel and spin the pedals fast to spin off excess moisture
• Dry the chain thoroughly - in summer leaving in the sun will be quickest, in winter a dry absorbent cloth
• Apply your chosen lube. Turn the chain so the quick link is at the bottom close to the chain rings. This is just so you can easily spot when you've finished lubing. Starting from the quick link apply a drop of lube to each roller on the upper chain surface working backwards to the cassette, move the chain forward and continue till the quick link returns to the original position. Lube is needed inside and on the rollers as these are the parts which experience friction. Leave to dry and then wipe off any excess. I use an oily rag for this as I feel the result is to leave a very thin coating on the chain surfaces which weren't lubed and protect them from water and crap. If I've done a complete degrease I lube twice.
• After a ride if it's been especially wet and mucky I flush with cold water, dry and then lube. If the ride has been dry or just a bit wet I wipe with my oily rag and this removes accumulated crap. If it looks necessary I'll apply a small amount of lube as described above.

This is a detailed post it doesn't take anywhere as long as it might sound. After a ride I'll spend 4-5 minutes cleaning the chain. I find old kitchen drying up cloths make the best rags. Avoid towels, cotton etc. as these fray and you'll end up with bits stuck in the drive chain. My chains are rarely seriously dirty. The benefits to a clean drive chain are significant.

 

[ChrisEyles]

You can get a tool to check the wear on your chain (available quite cheaply online). I replace mine at somewhere between 0.75% and 1% wear. This tends to be around 2,000 - 3,000 miles on my road bike, and between 750 - 1,500 miles on my MTB (ridden in very muddy conditions, probably with higher torques on steep climbs and more cross chaining).

I replace the rear cassette every 2-3 chains (I'm still on 8 speed tech, so it's dead cheap, around £15 for an 11-32 shimano jobby). I'd also agree that fitting a new chain to a worn cassette seems to result in occasional skipping under load and less tolerance to cross chaining.

The chain rings on the cranks last a very long time indeed, maybe more like 10,000 miles (plus?).

Great advice on cleaning from @PaulSB, that's pretty much what I do. Takes me a maximum of around 40 minutes if doing a proper clean and checks on a seriously filthy MTB (would take less if I had an outdoor tap with hose & spray washer), or 5-10 minutes after a regular road ride.

I usually squirt a smidge of GT85 into exposed cable outer ends and put a drop of chain oil on the pivots of the front & rear derailleurs and brake calipers/cantis every so often (maybe monthly, more if I'm riding the bike a lot) too.

If I'm feeling OCD a polish up of the frame & crankset with a bit of GT85 is quite quick to do and leaves the bike looking great.

 

[mickle]

Years ago I made the mistake of stripping my bike and soaking all my nuts and bolts, chainrings, seat collar, jockey wheels etc in MucOff for a few hours. Fancy gold anodised aluminium parts. It took all the anodising off them. Obviously steel parts will be fine, but don't be spraying it around willy nilly, it's very corrosive on the wrong surfaces.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Such rigorous cleaning and maintenance is all well and good if you do long rides.

For commuters like myself, the idea of cleaning the bike every time it gets mucky is totally impractical. I'd spend more time cleaning than riding. Plus who wants to clean a bike when you're already cold and wet.

I'd say:

1. Any amount of lube is sufficient. If in doubt usse more and wipe off. It matters little what sort, though "wet lube" types will last better. Always re-lube after riding in the wet.
2. Cleaning is largely cosmetic rather than functional. Follow rigorous cleaning only if you care about the appearance of your machine.
3. Wear depends on
- usage (wet and muddy = bad, dry and clean = good)
- mileage
- components (generally fancier stuff wears more quickly)

As a rule of thumb, if you keep it lubed, you should get 1000 miles minimum from a chain. Beyond that, it depends. It's very unlikely the wear you've experienced is anything to do with poor quality components.

 

[fossyant]

I'm not keen on mucoff and similar cleaners. They do a good job, but can dull the appearance of finishes on parts - mucoff made my stem on my 90's MTB go matt until I polished it up with car polish. I prefer car shampoo and water.

 

[Pale Rider]

Car shampoo for me - does the job and leaves a light shine which looks nice and means dirt doesn't stick as much.

Muc Off is like many cycling specific products.

It's fine, but the non-cycling specific products are just as good and usually cheaper.

I'll never buy a bike online again

There are some absolutely rubbish bikes sold online, usually at the cheaper end of the market.

But there are also plenty of good quality bikes sold that way.

It depends on the bike, rather than how you bought it.

 

[Philz2002]

Car shampoo for me - does the job and leaves a light shine which looks nice and means dirt doesn't stick as much.

Muc Off is like many cycling specific products.

It's fine, but the non-cycling specific products are just as good and usually cheaper.



There are some absolutely rubbish bikes sold online, usually at the cheaper end of the market.

But there are also plenty of good quality bikes sold that way.

It depends on the bike, rather than how you bought it.

Well, I looked at all reviews and they were all glowing. I mean, it camewith everything and was built ok. Could just be me tbh.
I'm starting this chain by being methodical and using dish soap and hot water.

Tell you the first thing I noticed? No greasy after product, even after drying thoroughly. Evaporates very quickly. Same result, just a little more elbow grease and money saved

 

[Pale Rider]

Well, I looked at all reviews and they were all glowing.

Obvious question, what bike do you have?

 

[carlosfandangus]

I have had 2 BMW motorcycles and both handbooks said "do not use hot water to wash the bike after exposure to salty roads" apparently this can re activate the road salt, in winter I wash down my bike (bicycle) in cold with the hosepipe then wash with hot soapy water, normally washing up liquid, I use car shampoo if I remember to get it out of the shed!!