chain replacement nightmare

[simonplatt]

chain replacement nightmare.

in 50 years of cycling i have never had a problem replacing chains, and as recommended then with the early derailleur, never used a split link but rejoined the chain with the chain tool.

since the newer chains and split links I have continued the practice but carried a split link in case of emergencies.

now, upon needing to do this on my old (1995) raleigh pioneer trail, I looked at some vids on line, as I frequently do to keep up with ideas.

I have always measured my chain by ,big front to big rear plus 2' however i have now seen a vid that suggests idler pulleys in line with the axle, in my case this is 2 full links (2 inner + 2 outer) tighter, which I am sure would do some damage if the chain were inadvertently shifted to the 2 'big cogs'
then there is another vid that says the idler gears should be vertical, which is somewhere between the 2.

next i find that some chains are directional, and some even right or left handed.

some vids suggest that the open end face forward, (so presumably there's no other way to id) and others that the writing should be on the outside (and presumably the right way up) and others that the solid link should be on the outside with the 'slotted' link on the inside. (most of the vids show the slotted link on the outside.)

further, some should be fitted with a 'missing' link others with a guide pin, the guide being snapped off upon completion.

so I go to my bike and get out my new shimano hg40 hyperglide chain, there is no split link nor guide pin with it but 1 end is open with the pin part fitted.
i measure my chain 'big to big' and fit together using chain tool. this is not successful and the outer of the link is bent. I remove the chain, then the link and fit a 'split link' but the one i have is kmc not shimano.
i am not sure at this point which part of the chain had the open end, so i exam the writing, only clue there is that one end of the link is marked 'narrow' on either side, so i fit that to the back (50/50 chance that its right)

so now I turn to my chain tool and compare with one i have bought more recently. the later one has a screw in bolt at the bottom which would obviously fit the chain better. so about to scrap the old one as being obsolete, i look again at the vids, and see that most are using the one without the screw !!!

does anyone know how to identify a chain to establish the correct fitting procedure?

maybe we should press the manufacturers for a standardized mark, like and arrow on the outer links? like some do with tyres.

i think i'll start another thread on that!!!

 

[the_mikey]

If in any doubt, install the chain and remove unwanted links after verifying that it will fit (or at least make it the same length as the old chain). ch
The screw in bolt is for securing/stabilising the chain when pushing the centre pin out, otherwise you could damage the last link in the chain; some chain tools may work without one, but it'll be optimised for a specific chain, ie 9,10 or 11 speed chains.

HG40 looks like an 8 speed chain, trouble with shimano chains is that they don't make it easy, that odd pin is a single use pin for securing the chain. This is where you'll get people recommending anything but shimano chains, ie SRAM or KMC, since these utilise a quick link and make life a lot easier.

 

[alicat]

Simonplatt

If what you were doing before was working, stick with it. New isn't always better. Some solutions have been invented to fix a fictitious problem.

 

[02GF74]

chains are directional??? you're having a laugh .... I a,m not aware of any road chain being directional but have seen some werod looking BMX chains that I discount for the purpose of this duscussion.

chain length - method I use is over big ring fronat and largest sprocket rear + 2 links. there is mehtod of having the idler pullers of the derailleurs in line but I don;t bother with that since I cannot rememeer the full method.

re: split links - I fit it so the the closed end of the link is leading on the inside - my theory is that this is the part that can rub on the sprockets (other side won't since the sprockets decrease in diameter) so the closed end leads.

 

[G3CWI]

chains are directional??? you're having a laugh .... I a,m not aware of any road chain being directional .

The Shimano Ultegra chain that I fitted last week is directional.

 

[Davidc]

If I'm using a Shimano chain then the quicklink is a pain and I use the oldest method - push a pin out, cut the chain to length and push it back in. That's with HG40 and HG50 8 speed chains. I have never had the slightest trouble with a chain after doing that.

SRAM and KMC chains generally last longer so if they're cheaper or the same price I use them in preference to Shimano ones. They have easy to use and symmetrical quicklinks so I use them.

Always do length by measuring round large/ large and taking the next practical length up. Usually about 1 link up. Again never a problem on any bike, ever since the one with a Regina 5 speed freewheel block and a double at the front.

I've never contemplated worring about which way round a chain goes and given the number of chains I've gone through i must have had every possible combination (i.e. all 4)

+ What alicat says.

 

[simonplatt]

apparently they are designed for better shifting and one side shifts better up and the other down. also read the warning below

http://www.cycling-inform.com/equipment/181-warning-on-shimano-cn-7900-dura-ace-chains.html

it appears some split links are too.

http://firebike.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/problem-solvedthe-shimano-7900-chain.html

 

[youngoldbloke]

21 speed triple? No problem. I would use a KMC or a SRAM 7 speed chain and it's quick link. I would also use a KMC quicklink with a Shimano chain. No need to faff about with directional chains and special pins. (I use a KMC quicklink with a Campag 10 speed chain - their joining/rejoining system is ridiculous).

 

[simonplatt]

it seems (as some are saying) that shimano are the only ones that are directional? in which case i would prefer to use something else even if it costs more, but what are the options? i have just put on a new shimano hyperglide cassette (not ridden the bike yet) with the hg 40 chain, only other i've seen is a kmc on amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KMC-Silver-narrow-speed-chain/dp/B002UTDMMM/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_t_2_QVM1

which says that it is compatible with hg

 

[youngoldbloke]

I don't think Shimano 7/8 speed chains are directional. Only some of their 10 speed. I have never worried about 7 speed chain/casette compatibility. I use a cheapish KMC chain with my Shimano 14 speed setup.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

it seems (as some are saying) that shimano are the only ones that are directional? in which case i would prefer to use something else even if it costs more, but what are the options? i have just put on a new shimano hyperglide cassette (not ridden the bike yet) with the hg 40 chain, only other i've seen is a kmc on amazon

The Shimano chains are directional for a reason, they are shaped to make shifting slicker when combined with hyper glide components. I have tried a number of different chains and they all impacted shifting negatively. IMHO hg components requite hg specification chains to do them justice.

 

[Blue Hills]

Comes as news to me that some chains are directional.

The things you learn on here

I'm not disputing it, but it sure is one more reason to keep things simple unless you are in the TDF.

I'll die having gone no higher than 9 speed.

 

[youngoldbloke]

The Shimano chains are directional for a reason, they are shaped to make shifting slicker when combined with hyper glide components. I have tried a number of different chains and they all impacted shifting negatively. IMHO hg components requite hg specification chains to do them justice.

In view of the confusion about this, can you tell us which Shimano chains are directional? I thought it was just the 'top-end' of the range 10 speed? I have read that their 11 speed chain reverts to being non directional? At the level of the OP's set-up I doubt whether much, if any, difference in shifting quality will be noticeable if he uses a KMC, SRAM, or Shimano 7 speed chain.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

In view of the confusion about this, can you tell us which Shimano chains are directional? I thought it was just the 'top-end' of the range 10 speed? I have read that their 11 speed chain reverts to being non directional? At the level of the OP's set-up I doubt whether much, if any, difference in shifting quality will be noticeable if he uses a KMC, SRAM, or Shimano 7 speed chain.

The hyper glide 10 speed chains CN-7900 / CN-6700 are directional and impact shifting performance on both Ultegra and DuraAce Di2.
When working on Di2 with shifting quality problems, the first thing I do is ensure the chain is a hyper glide.. I have tried quite a few chains and none of them shift consistently as well.

 

[Davidc]

In view of the confusion about this, can you tell us which Shimano chains are directional? I thought it was just the 'top-end' of the range 10 speed? I have read that their 11 speed chain reverts to being non directional? At the level of the OP's set-up I doubt whether much, if any, difference in shifting quality will be noticeable if he uses a KMC, SRAM, or Shimano 7 speed chain.

I think your thoughts are right.

From your posts I'd guess you, the OP, and me all use the 6/ 7/ 8 speed chains. For my own peace of mind I've just had a look at 4 relevant websites which make no mention of there being any directional issue with those. Shimano do say only to use the 10 speed Hyperglide chain with the 7900, the link is already above, but that's not in this category.

FWIW I've found the KMC 6/7/8 chains last longest, so use when they're available cheaply, and when riding I can't tell the difference between the three makes or different types within brands. (Perhaps I would if I rode at the level I did 40 years ago but that's never going to happen!)

I can't tell the difference between cassettes either (with the same ratios of course). Using Shimano HG30 at present, cost £20 for 5 last year, bankrupt stock. They're the bottom of the range, weigh a bit more than the SRAM ones I used before them, and seem to last more miles. Either I'm becoming less critical or there's not as much to choose between these things as the makers would have us believe.