Changed rear wheel bearings, wheel far too stiff, help!

[oldgreyandslow]

If i was in my workshop, i'd do the following, its a lot of faff, but i never let anything beat me...

Check the skewer isn't bent.

Even check the axle isn't bent by placing a steel rule along its length. No, that's cobblers becase it runs ok in your hand.

Check i'd put the washer on the non drive side the right way round. No, same as above.

Highly unlikely...and yet i wonder ?, iv'e always noticed this with 10 speed cassettes..when you place the 12t on, it actually sits slightly proud of the freehub, then you have to hold it in place while tightening up the lockring. It then gets compressed into the grooves on the freehub. Occasionally you don't get it right and it ends up out of position.

Stupidly obvious, but i'd check the wheel alignment with everything, brake blocks in particular.

Ive had this before myself, the wheel locking up or stiff cranks, but never identified exactly why because ive had it all out, done this, done that and then it works.

Tried two skewers, both work with the good wheel

Cassette fits OK in the good wheel it seems the same in the fulcrum

Alignment seems ok with the brake blocks etc

I'll try again tomorrow

have you replaced the freewheel bearings and the wheel bearings? or just the wheel bearings?

Just wheelbearings


Thanks folks, I'll try refitting it again tomorrow

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

tbh it sounds like the freewheel bearings are buggered (or have moved, picked up some crap), but i've only got experience with hope hubs and brompton hubs.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

It is a sod to refit the wheel though compared to the old one which slots in the dropouts very easily

This suggests that the over-locknut-distance is no longer 130mm, but noticeably greater.

Secondly tightening the QR seems to exert pressure on the moving parts causing them to bind, which is not surprising given the above.

If I were you, I would check the thickness and profile of the new parts compared to the old very carefully, and check the "stacked height" of intermediate assemblies as you go along as far as possible.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

This suggests that the over-locknut-distance is no longer 130mm, but noticeably greater.

Secondly tightening the QR seems to exert pressure on the moving parts causing them to bind, which is not surprising given the above.

If I were you, I would check the thickness and profile of the new parts compared to the old very carefully, and check the "stacked height" of intermediate assemblies as you go along as far as possible.

good point

 

[Tim Hall]

Is it possible to refit the wheel with the freehub fitted but without the cassette on the freehub? And what happens when you do?

 

[oldgreyandslow]

fited the wheel without the casette anf with the free hub and its OK, fit the cassette and its not. It looks like the lockring isn't going in enough and it looks like its fouling on the inside of the dropout, so either the cassette isn't seathing properly and I can't see how that can be or its the freehub and/or bearings not seated right.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

or the bearings are buggered, i.e., collapsed between the races.

 

[gbb]

fited the wheel without the casette anf with the free hub and its OK, fit the cassette and its not. It looks like the lockring isn't going in enough and it looks like its fouling on the inside of the dropout, so either the cassette isn't seathing properly and I can't see how that can be or its the freehub and/or bearings not seated right.

This is where i was coming from with the dropout. Is yours a 12T cassette ? Remember i was talking about that 12t ring sitting proud of the hub, then when you tighten the lockring, it pulls the 12t into the splines. If the 12t's not located properly, it could stop the lockring pulling the sprocket in, It'd seem tight, but in the wrong position, only by a mm or two, but worth checking. Perhaps that'd leave the next sprockets slightly loose as well.

Only maybe ?

 

[oldgreyandslow]

This is where i was coming from with the dropout. Is yours a 12T cassette ? Remember i was talking about that 12t ring sitting proud of the hub, then when you tighten the lockring, it pulls the 12t into the splines. If the 12t's not located properly, it could stop the lockring pulling the sprocket in, It'd seem tight, but in the wrong position, only by a mm or two, but worth checking. Perhaps that'd leave the next sprockets slightly loose as well.

Only maybe ?

Its crazy, the cassettes located correctly yet the lockring sits proud of the locknut. The cassette fits on the other wheel perfectly and I'm not doing anything differently when installing them.

The only thing I can think of is that the bearings either aren't seated just right or maybe just a tiny bit taller, but this has happened with SKF and NSN bearings.

I fitted the wheel with the 12T sprocket removed, it didn't bind but didin't run quite right either, as if the indexing was very slightly out. Which makes me think there something amiss with the spacing somewhere, I just can't find out what it is. I've removed the bearings again and I'm probably going to take it to the LBS. Which is a right pain because I don't like being beaten by something like this!

 

[YahudaMoon]

Maybe the hubs are worn out beyond repair ?. Try refitting the old bearings. Its a bit like putting a new chain on a worn out cassette. Sometimes they dont work.

 

[oldgreyandslow]

Maybe the hubs are worn out beyond repair ?. Try refitting the old bearings. Its a bit like putting a new chain on a worn out cassette. Sometimes they dont work.

If they're worn out at around 6000 miles then all I can say is fulcrum wheels are absolute carp!

Old bearings were damaged getting them out so refitting isn't an option.

 

[gbb]

Its crazy, the cassettes located correctly yet the lockring sits proud of the locknut. The cassette fits on the other wheel perfectly and I'm not doing anything differently when installing them.

The only thing I can think of is that the bearings either aren't seated just right or maybe just a tiny bit taller, but this has happened with SKF and NSN bearings.

I fitted the wheel with the 12T sprocket removed, it didn't bind but didin't run quite right either, as if the indexing was very slightly out. Which makes me think there something amiss with the spacing somewhere, I just can't find out what it is. I've removed the bearings again and I'm probably going to take it to the LBS. Which is a right pain because I don't like being beaten by something like this!

Bearings, its impossible for a major manufacturer to make standard bearings of a differing depth.
As you say, my first thought would be that you hav'nt driven in the bearings into the hub far enough. That in turn would push the freehub inner spacer, freehub and cassette further out than it should be. If it's only a couple of mm, you probably would get the freehub pawls to engage so it wouldn't be apparent.

Just had another look at my wheel, the locknut sits more or less flush with the cassette lockring and there's around 1mm clearance between the cassette lockring and the dropout, so it's a close fit. I'd try pressing the bearings in a bit more.

Also, logically if you omit the 12T, the other sprockets are not held tight in their respective positions, so you probably would experience indexing problems.

 

[YahudaMoon]

If they're worn out at around 6000 miles then all I can say is fulcrum wheels are absolute carp!

Old bearings were damaged getting them out so refitting isn't an option.

Hi I have no idea what model you have though 6000 miles !!!. Im suprised its not the rims your replacing (depends on terrain and weather) never mind the bearings.

I think 6000 miles aint bad for a cheap- mid range factory wheel set although Id expect more on a hand built decent Mavic rim , Campag / Shimano hub mix

Edit I normally get three - four rims out of a decent hub. Cheap factory wheel sets (front & rear wheel for less than £100) I ve had in the past I just scrap

 

[gbb]

I don't think there will be anything wrong with the hub, OP hasnt made any mention of difficulty getting the bearings in.
If when driving a bearing in, it doesnt go in straight, it instantly becomes obvious, you'd see the bearing skewed and it'd become nigh on impossible to drive it in without doing damage. Pull it out as soon as its noticed, you'd still expect to get it in at the second attempt.

IME the hub will be fine...there's no evidence in what oldgreys said that indicates problems with a dodgy hub.

 

[YahudaMoon]

Hub and Cone checker using a ball point pen

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/hub-overhaul-and-adjustment