Cleat positioning

[yello]

I'm talking roadie cleats here rather than SPDs though maybe the same applies.

Andy Pruitt, in his book, recommends that the ball of the foot is centred the over pedal axle (for my size shoe). I have read others giving the same advice so it seems to be the accepted wisdom - I set my new shoes up accordingly as a starting point.

I'm getting pins and needles in the right foot (left is okay) so spent a bit of time researching possible causes. I found advice to move the cleats back a little (Pruitt also mentions this) but I also came across a website that advised, for my shoe size, centring the ball of the foot a whopping 8mm behind the pedal axle!

I think cleat position could well be as personal as saddle position but has anyone experimented with, or even found a preference for, such a large set back?

 

[yello]

Weird innit? You ask what you think will be a starter for 10 question and.... nothing! Makes you wonder if anyone on here actually rides a bike! I bet if I asked on a certain other cycling forum, there'd be loads of thoughts... it'd then degenerate into a conversation about anal probes but at least there'd be something useful before then!

Anyway, enough of my whining...

For the purposes of documentation (and, who knows, perhaps someone might even find it useful ), I moved my cleats back 4mm and went out for an hour yesterday. It certainly felt very different but difficult to say whether it'll solve the tingling. Sadly, I suspect not. I'll find out tomorrow (if the weather's up to it) as it's club afternoon.

 

[jasper]

Axle under ball of foot is the starting point. You also need to align the feet in their natural position; don't try to force them straight, if that's not how they hang naturally. Sit on a worktop/high stool, etc and note how you feet dangle. Try to replicate the position on the bike.

Your feet have been used to a certain position and now, however slightly different, they are having to get used to a new position. It's a bit of trial and error until you find what works for you. It could also be that your shoes aren't stiff enough to support your foot, lots of variables. Like you said though, personal thing.

 

[yello]

Thanks jasper. I've done the 'angle of the dangle' thing. I take the point about the feet being used to the current positioning (I've done thousands of miles with ball of foot over the axle) so do expect the new position to take a little getting used to.

Mainly, I wondered if anyone's had such a large cleat set back though. 8mm seems huge to me.

Here's the link btw,

http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2004/letters07-26#Cleat

...but I've just realised it's 8mm IN FRONT of pedal axle, not behind!

Make sure that the ball of your foot [centre of the first metatarsal joint] is in front of the pedal axle with the crank arm forward and horizontal. For a rough guide for shoe size metric 36 - 38, 7mm in front; 39 - 41, 8mm in front; 42 - 43, 9mm in front; 44 -45, 10mm in front.

but none-the-less, that seems a big change to me.

 

[fossyant]

All my shoes are set up the same - ball of foot over axel, but I'm mr average 43 shoe size.

I don't think it will solve the discomfort - new shoes you say...maybe too tight, not tight enough...... experiment a bit with them.....

 

[jasper]

You may have to play around with the saddle too as the new cleats may've altered the leg length.

 

[jasper]

...but I've just realised it's 8mm IN FRONT of pedal axle, not behind!

Moving the cleat back will put your foot forward.

 

[yello]

Moving the cleat back will put your foot forward.

Yes, I'd like to blame my getting it wrong on confusion... but that'd be a lie. I knew this and simply got it wrong!

 

[PrettyboyTim]

Now, I'm no expert on cleats as I've only been using them for less than a week... but on the instructions to my shoes it said that putting the cleat so the ball of the foot was over the axle was a good starting point, and that putting it forward of the axle would result in more power whereas putting it behind could result in more comfort...

Wait... was it the other way around?

 

[yello]

Wait... was it the other way around?

It's like the bleedy hokey cokey isn't it!

 

[yenrod]

Always had the right foot axle-ball but the left has always been axle 'very slightly' behind the ball forsomereason :?:

I could write a book about my foot positions !

 

[Saddle bum]

Generally speaking for racing and sportive work it is recommended that the foot should be a mite back on the pedal, whereas for Audax and touring a generous amount of food should be over the pedal.

Not the most practical answer, but if you have more than one machine and shoes to suit summer and winter, a compromise can be worked out.

 

[yello]

a generous amount of food should be over the pedal.

:?: I'm imagining cake strapped to the pedal!

Good info, thanks sb. It's helped a lot and I didn't appreciate there were fore and aft settings for performance v comfort. So I think I'm going to leave my cleats with the 4mm set back for tomorrow, see what that does. It's giving more foot over the pedal so, hopefully, will be more comfortable.

 

[Fiona N]

T

http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2004/letters07-26#Cleat

...but I've just realised it's 8mm IN FRONT of pedal axle, not behind!

I think the point is with this set-up to reduce the use of the foot (plantar fascia) and calf muscles and increase use of the glutes and hamstrings. I tried it just for fun when I was playing around with the set-up on my Speedmachine and had changed to short cranks. For the 'bents I think it's not a good idea as it seemed to me to make pedalling 'in circles' more difficult and encourage stomping. But that's on a 'bent. I would be intrigued to try it on an upright but so far haven't.

 

[yello]

Google's been my friend and I've been reading about Lon Haldeman, RAAM and distance cycling. Lon, a winner of RAAM, advises people with hot foot problems to shift their cleats back as far as they'll go, and even drills shoes to put cleats further back still... mid foot even!

Check this out!

http://www2.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2007/01/cleat-position.html

Apparently (some) bmx-ers have their cleats back in the heel of the shoe!

So I'll leave my cleats at 4mm back just to see if there's any difference when I do a 100km ride tomorrow. If there's little or no improvement, I'll move them as far back as they'll go.