Contador fails drug test

[davefb]

Can't believe that there's a debate on making doping legal. Hasn't this been done to death already?

The contaminated blood bag theory has changed my mind somewhat. That seems very plausible, especially considering that Contador (and Schleck for that matter) both seemed to go much better after the rest days. Need the experts to tell us whether it makes scientific sense, but it certainly makes cognitive sense.

And I agree - the denials, the explanations, the pointing to food, contamination, spiking, mishandling - we've been here before. But then Diane Modahl was saying the same things, and she was proven right in the end.

Just trying to keep an open mind - even though history indicates I should do otherwise.

that was apalling, it became a sort of reverse prejudice, ie the lab claimed it was just a pesky brit being snobbish..

but the value in her system would have meant she would have been having serious health problems it was so high...

hmm kudos to l'equipe..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Modahl

still, if those plasticizers are true, is there any legit reason for having those? could he have had fluids since it was hot or something ? ? is that okay ?

 

[davefb]

Yes, but it would open up the sport at a professional level to more people as natural ability and hard work would become less important - even fat blokes could ride the TdeF along as they were taking the hits!

its interesting reading the old info about the TdF, the attitude was sort of 'hang on, you think we could do this without cocaine and arsenic , are you MAD???'

apparently they even had a mention in a 30's rule book to remind riders that the tour didnt give out any drugs !!

 

[Smokin Joe]

IMHO, the social prohibition argument doesn't hold here. 'Sports' are defined partly by the fact that they have rules that are not the normal rules of society around them. They are disciplines. This is the basis for insisting on 'clean sports'. If you want a market-based competition between pharmaceutical (and soon, genetic and nanotech) companies in which the qualities of the rider become increasingly irrelevent, then your solution is great. If you want to make the young men and women involved expendable tools of this competition, then your solution is also great.

But I don't think I like either of those outcomes.

I agree.

 

[Paul_L]

aparently the use of clenbuterol is common in livestock farming to build muscle on livestock that don't get chance to roam about. Several articles on t'internet including this one called tainted meat

I wonder if this is the cause of pico traces in Bertie's urine?

 

[raindog]

I wonder if this is the cause of pico traces in Bertie's urine?

Well that's what he's saying. Someone gave him a gift of meat from Spain the evening before the rest day.

But in theory it's forbidden in Europe to use clenbuterol on livestock, but I expect there are still breeders breaking the law and using it, just as farmers still use forbidden pesticides etc and get away with it.

 

[adam23]

How about the fact that it makes it possible for 'clean' athletes who value their health to stand a chance of winning?

When great riders like Andy Hampsten and Greg Lemond were getting dropped by doped-up 'average' pros it makes a joke of the sport.

If you say that anything goes, you have the people who are literally willing to die to win winning (and dying)!

and tom simpson died frm booze and drugs didnt he so your right its never right to dope up

 

[Ball]

IMHO, the social prohibition argument doesn't hold here. 'Sports' are defined partly by the fact that they have rules that are not the normal rules of society around them. They are disciplines. This is the basis for insisting on 'clean sports'. If you want a market-based competition between pharmaceutical (and soon, genetic and nanotech) companies in which the qualities of the rider become increasingly irrelevent, then your solution is great. If you want to make the young men and women involved expendable tools of this competition, then your solution is also great.

But I don't think I like either of those outcomes.

Bloody well said!

As for Contador, accepting a gift of meat from ANYBODY during the Tour de France smacks of stupidity really.

 

[raindog]

and tom simpson died frm booze and drugs didnt he

....and dehydration.

 

[Smokin Joe]

....and dehydration.

There were many factors in Simpson's death. in addition to his ability to push himself to extraordinary limits he wasn't well and hadn't been for a few days prior to his collapse. But it was almost certainly the Brandy he drank (which caused his dehydration) and the Amphetamines (which are a mental stimulant, not a physical one and allow the user to exceed normal physical limits) which caused him to go over the edge of what would normally just have been fatigue.

Simpson was not the first rider in those days to collapse after drug misuse, but the others were lucky and only nearly died.

 

[tigger]

Just putting a check in to see where we all are with this at the moment...

Not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but... I'm sure we all know that the lab in question detected a trace which is 400 times lower than the threshold required by WADA for labs to be able to detect?

Well this gives even more perspective on how insignificant this trace is: 50 picograms of clenbuterol were found in Contador's sample. There are a trillion picograms in one gram!!!

I think he was also tested approx 2 days either side with negative results for both tests.

So given the insignificance of this amount, we know it cannot have offered any performance enhancement? So this has to be a contamination case? Agreed?



Obviously we can only guess at the cause of the contamination - but do we all agree this can only be a case of contamination?

 

[Spokesmann]

When will these highly paid, highly influential morons ever learn?

 

[Skip Madness]

Obviously we can only guess at the cause of the contamination - but do we all agree this can only be a case of contamination?

It's dependent on this news about the level of plasticisers supposedly found in one or more of his samples around the same time, which could be an indication of use of a blood bag. That opens up the idea that the clenbuterol was in blood he had stored earlier in the year and then reinjected in the Tour. I'd guess that he didn't take clenbuterol during the Tour as a PED. Supposing he transfused his own blood, I'd still be surprised if he had used clenbuterol since it's apparently easily tested for, so it may have been that the clenbuterol entered his sytem through (say) contaminated meat earlier in the year (which has been reported with Spanish meat, especially veal), and it was present in the blood he transfused.

But really, who knows yet. I didn't think Landis would take testosterone during the Tour. If cycling's taught me one thing, it's never under-estimate either the craftiness or stupidity of cheats. So as for where I am with this case? No bloody idea...

 

[Crackle]

No surprise in the Peloton according to Chavanel

 

[tigger]

It's dependent on this news about the level of plasticisers supposedly found in one or more of his samples around the same time, which could be an indication of use of a blood bag. That opens up the idea that the clenbuterol was in blood he had stored earlier in the year and then reinjected in the Tour. I'd guess that he didn't take clenbuterol during the Tour as a PED. Supposing he transfused his own blood, I'd still be surprised if he had used clenbuterol since it's apparently easily tested for, so it may have been that the clenbuterol entered his sytem through (say) contaminated meat earlier in the year (which has been reported with Spanish meat, especially veal), and it was present in the blood he transfused.

But really, who knows yet. I didn't think Landis would take testosterone during the Tour. If cycling's taught me one thing, it's never under-estimate either the craftiness or stupidity of cheats. So as for where I am with this case? No bloody idea...

Ah you miss my point... sure the contamination could have come from a transfusion of stored blood. My point is he didn't actively, knowingly ingest clenbuterol during the tour. With me?

Oh, and re: the plasticisers. Whether its true or not is irrevelant I think to WADA or UCI. I understand the testing for them is not agreed? So it can't have any bearing on Contador's case. Not saying he didn't contaminate himself this way but rather it will not hang him!

 

[montage]

If the rumour about the plastics in his blood is true, then that seals the deal for me.
Gutted I spent all that time watch the tour de france - what a waste of time.