Converting a Boardman 8.6 hybrid

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Thanks all for the advice. Everyone seems to have a different opinion when it comes to this subject lol.

I'm also looking at the Specialized sirrus X2.0 which has steel fork instead of alloy and only a 1x drivetrain which might be more suitable with the mid drive?

If I were to go with a rear hub instead would anyone have any recommendations? Looking to keep the bike light just for lifting as I had a test drive of the crossfire e and having to lift it over a few gates wasn't much fun!

I think the factory built ebikes come with potential issues in terms of availability of parts and while a bike and tongsheng will cost c1.2k to get a bike with spec and motor as good would cost at least double of not more.

I see woosh are now doing the tongsheng with a saddle bag battery that doesn't weigh much at all and gives 50 miles. That seems ideal if true but didn't think a battery that small could give that much range?

If the Sirrus has a steel fork a front hub motor would be ideal for it. This might mean you don't need a torque arm and front hub motors can be relatively small and light. On a low power 250W front hub motor there aren't really issues with loss of traction and in fact you would have 2 wheel drive which means better traction on looser surfaces like sand and grit. It also keeps your comfort levels up as you have full length spokes on the rear wheel plus the fact you don't have all power through the back wheel would mean less spoke breakages at the rear. Either hub type you wouldn't need a huge capacity battery so can keep the bike lighter and geared hub motors have no drag when unpowered so the bike would be easy to cycle unpowered. The front hub motor also means you can easily swop it back to your original wheel if you want to re-use it as a standard bike thanks to the steel forks. That would be made more difficult with torque arm or arms on a aluminium frame. Also bear in mind an aluminium frame sometimes needs the dropouts filed down a bit to accomodate the rear hub motor axle, this can compromise the frame a bit depending on design. That isn't normally an issue with front steel forks although you may have to file a bit it won't normally compromise their strength and normally much less material needs to be removed with forks.

Also because hub motors are independent of the drivetrain they can massively extend the life of the drivetrain up to about 3x over a standard bicycle because on the hills the hub motor is doing more of the work which reduces the wear rate massively. It really depends on how you cycle though. If your the type of rider who enjoys more leisurely hill climbing then there can be a huge benefit but if you are the type of rider who will put in the same effort as a normal bicycle and just go up the hill 3x as fast then not as much benefit but overall there is always a huge gain in drivetrain lifespan hence why many hub motor ebikes just have basic tourney bottom end drivetrains even on high cost £2000 plus ebikes. The drivetrain quality becomes less important with a hub motor. The chances of chain snaps is massively reduced over a conventional bicycle.

Throttles tend to also help with drivetrain lifespan as they operate immediately where as cadence sensors create a delay in operating and if you are doing a standing start going up a hill there is a delay where the chain is under very high load until the hub motor kicks in.

The front hub motor also means the steering is slightly heavier but depending on bike you may prefer this. The Brompton ebike steering feels better than the more twitchy steering of a standard Brompton for most people.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
you can have exactly the same setup in a hub motor drive system.

Could you explain how?
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
My ride out along canal with the wife on her ebike
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I see woosh are now doing the tongsheng with a saddle bag battery that doesn't weigh much at all and gives 50 miles. That seems ideal if true but didn't think a battery that small could give that much range?

Range is complex.

I'm 150KG when you take me, the heaviest things I routinely carry and my bike. I live in the peak district, we have some really, really good hills.

In case you are wondering, my Shengyi DWGC22 250w hub motor and 48v battery can get me up any hill around here without breaking into a sweat. I get 25 miles if I have a lot of assistance, but sometimes I like to not have the hub run and just ride the bike instead, in which case I get a lot more mileage.

You won't be carrying that much, and you are probably lighter than my bike/man/luggage combo. You'd get far more range than I would from an equivalent setup.

Frankly, I wouldn't have a single ring setup. I like to ride up hills when I feel like riding up hills - one ring would make that impossible unless I had a really stupidly big cassette and rear mech or top gear that meant I would spin out. In fact, that's the main reason I don't have a crank motor. Plus the rear hub is simpler and cheaper.

If you do want to use a geared hub that's great, but watch spares availability. Not all hubs would be able to cope with you pounding away on a hub motor and not all hubs would be able to cope with the torque produced by the motor. I sold someone an ebike with a hub motor and a Nuvinci hub for those. He got really annoyed with me afterwards because it needs a part you can't find in the UK at the minute.
 
OP
OP
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mtjnr

Regular
Range is complex.

I'm 150KG when you take me, the heaviest things I routinely carry and my bike. I live in the peak district, we have some really, really good hills.

In case you are wondering, my Shengyi DWGC22 250w hub motor and 48v battery can get me up any hill around here without breaking into a sweat. I get 25 miles if I have a lot of assistance, but sometimes I like to not have the hub run and just ride the bike instead, in which case I get a lot more mileage.

You won't be carrying that much, and you are probably lighter than my bike/man/luggage combo. You'd get far more range than I would from an equivalent setup.

Frankly, I wouldn't have a single ring setup. I like to ride up hills when I feel like riding up hills - one ring would make that impossible unless I had a really stupidly big cassette and rear mech or top gear that meant I would spin out. In fact, that's the main reason I don't have a crank motor. Plus the rear hub is simpler and cheaper.

If you do want to use a geared hub that's great, but watch spares availability. Not all hubs would be able to cope with you pounding away on a hub motor and not all hubs would be able to cope with the torque produced by the motor. I sold someone an ebike with a hub motor and a Nuvinci hub for those. He got really annoyed with me afterwards because it needs a part you can't find in the UK at the minute.

Thanks for yoir advice. Is your 48v battery one of the large downtube batteries? DWGC22 seems to have a lot of champions on here. It seems there are pros and cons to either option. I really w8shbi could try a mid drive to compare it to the hub drives I've tried as it's impossible to know what will work for you just based on other people experiences.
 

gzoom

Über Member
I think the factory built ebikes come with potential issues in terms of availability of parts and while a bike and tongsheng will cost c1.2k to get a bike with spec and motor as good would cost at least double of not more.

Or just buy a used Boardman 8.9e off eBay for £1k, save money and effort.

I might put mine up for sale, just don't used it now that I own the Creo, and fancy start saving up for a eMTB.
 
OP
OP
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mtjnr

Regular
Or just buy a used Boardman 8.9e off eBay for £1k, save money and effort.

I might put mine up for sale, just don't used it now that I own the Creo, and fancy start saving up for a eMTB.

Yeah but my issue with the boardman 8.9e is a perfect example of my issue with proprietary ebikes. The battery is built for the bike. Once boardman stop making those batteries the bike is obsolete. I want a bike that I can keep and look after for a long time. I see so many buying ebikes and discarding them after 2/3 yrs because the parts breakdown and they find it difficult to get teoairs/replacements. A self build is easy to fix and replace and if I decide I no longer want the assist I can just retrofit it back to a pedal bike.
 

the snail

Guru
Location
Chippenham
Just go for it. The tsdz should work really well with the boardman.
 

gzoom

Über Member
Yeah but my issue with the boardman 8.9e is a perfect example of my issue with proprietary ebikes. The battery is built for the bike. Once boardman stop making those batteries the bike is obsolete. I want a bike that I can keep and look after for a long time. I see so many buying ebikes and discarding them after 2/3 yrs because the parts breakdown and they find it difficult to get teoairs/replacements. A self build is easy to fix and replace and if I decide I no longer want the assist I can just retrofit it back to a pedal bike.

The Boardman battery/motor is supplied by Fazua who supply loads of other brands, and in addition have been purchased by Porsche. I’ve not seen any reports of Fazua powered bikes becoming ‘obsolete’. But I can understand why people get worried, still an OEM eBikes work fine.
 
still an OEM eBikes work fine.
The price difference is enough to put me off.

Bafang in particular have made some really good, well-proven motors. A bit old-fashioned now, but the price difference between one and a branded western one would put me right off. With OEM, you are at the mercy of distributors. That's the reason hub geared bikes aren't more of a thing!
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Bosch have a reaosnable policy on spares.

They undertake to continue to provide them for at least seven years after the component drops out of the OEM catalogue.

My 2015 Bosch battery is still being made, so has yet to begin its run-out period.

One of the reasons the major manufacturers don't offer hub drive bikes is the Chinese technology is, or at least was, so cranky.

I had a couple of early Woosh bikes on test - they were dreadful contraptions, albeit cheap.

Things have improved in that regard, but hub motors still cannot match the excellent riding characteristics of a quality crank drive with its combination of speed, cadence, and crucially, torque sensors.

Some Chinese crank drives now have all this technology, including the Tongsheng the OP is considering.

Such a motor ought to ride as well as the best European branded ones.
 
OP
OP
M

mtjnr

Regular
Bosch have a reaosnable policy on spares.

They undertake to continue to provide them for at least seven years after the component drops out of the OEM catalogue.

My 2015 Bosch battery is still being made, so has yet to begin its run-out period.

One of the reasons the major manufacturers don't offer hub drive bikes is the Chinese technology is, or at least was, so cranky.

I had a couple of early Woosh bikes on test - they were dreadful contraptions, albeit cheap.

Things have improved in that regard, but hub motors still cannot match the excellent riding characteristics of a quality crank drive with its combination of speed, cadence, and crucially, torque sensors.

Some Chinese crank drives now have all this technology, including the Tongsheng the OP is considering.

Such a motor ought to ride as well as the best European branded ones.

Difference is a tongsheng kit costs £600 but to get a bike with the equivalent torque bosch mid drives you are looking at 4k right? The difference is just too much imo. I've also seen that wait times for bosch if you have an in warranty fault can be long and if it breaks out of warranty then its going to cost another fortune.
 
OP
OP
M

mtjnr

Regular
Or just buy a used Boardman 8.9e off eBay for £1k, save money and effort.

I might put mine up for sale, just don't used it now that I own the Creo, and fancy start saving up for a eMTB.

Also I'll be using cycle2work scheme so that rules out 2nd hand options. Is it the hybrid 8.9e or the adv you have?
 

gzoom

Über Member
Also I'll be using cycle2work scheme so that rules out 2nd hand options. Is it the hybrid 8.9e or the adv you have?

Mine is the hybrid, essentially it's what you are trying to do but Halfords have done the job for you.

I have to say though you can tell the Boardman 8.9e is essentially a normal Boardman with a motor despite been OEM. My other eBike, a Specialized Creo blows the Boardman 8.9e out of the water interms of 'fun' / riding 'feel'.

What I've realised is comparing eBike based on motor/battery size is like comparing analogue bike based on the fact they all have 2 wheels and handle bars.

Frame design, shifters, brakes, wheelsets all make as much difference on an eBike as any analogue bike.

But if you want just an easy A to B eBike and don't care/need good ride quility just get one the cheaper £1k Carrer models.

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