Coronavirus outbreak

[tom73]

I think you need to give some appreciation that the economy is important. Its now summer and the virus transmission should be controllable with some measures. If you keep tanking the economy the government will have to keep printing money. So follows hyperinflation and we are all screwed. I think the high risk need to keep shielding and those people need some financial help from the government. The rest of us need to be back working in offices if so needed with a national whistleblowing scheme where employees can report employers for not incorporating distancing and such safety measures.

That's the point it's not and the measures are still not good enough. Health and the economy are not at different ends. We can have both acting together. It's not a stand off between the two or take it or leave how ever hard the government are trying to make it. The longer we stay in this the worse it will get for them both. I'm happy for the economy to open up what it should look like and how it should be rebalanced, which part's are in need help is a very a different debate. We can open things up with the right measures in place following the right science together with the right public health information. The problem is the government and most of the Westminster bubble don't understand even now is this situation is not about being popular the virus is not bothered about any of that. But it's about doing what's right and going it quickly by going that the economy and public health can be protected.

As for keeping the high risk shielding it depends what the government want class as high risk. As they move that around when it suits what ever other risk factors you may have it's clear that as with other diseases. The one thing you don't want to be with Covid around is poor so that put plenty of the population higher up the risk tree. If we shield them till this is over well the economy will be truly bust.

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Very few people in the local shopping mall wearing masks today according to my neighbour. She overheard disapproving tuts and "Oh, she's one of them" being said in her direction from people not wearing masks like her. Folk on the neighbourhood app saying the junkies are aggressively begging and coughing on people who don't give them money.

 

[classic33]

All the lockdown will achieve is to change the cause of death over the next couple of years. OK, less people will die from the virus, but a whole load of others will die as a result of not getting medical attention for other dangerous conditions because they have been discouraged from visiting the doctor and non-coronavirus related medicine has essentially been put on hold to a large extent. What would you rather die of; the virus, cancer, diabetes, or heart disease? Non-coronavirus mortality will strike back with a vengeance in the months and years to come, since so much attention has been focused on the virus to the exclusion of pretty much everything else. All the other dangerous illnesses haven't declared a truce whilst the virus is running, they are all still there too.

Living with the first and third(have a problem with it, not certain exactly what) still awaiting "normal routine" to start up.

Both complicated by a third, epilepsy, that makes treatment harder anyway. Still consider the virus should take priority though. If at all possible I've stayed away from A&E's after any problems due to the epilepsy, if I'm able. Being picked up in the street rules this out.

The A&E's are busy at the best of times. Why make it worse for them. They can x-ray the head, close any cuts and keep me under observation. But that removes staff that could be seeing to someone else.

Maybe too many visits to hospitals over the years has made me think this way, I don't know. So, if you're able to avoid doing so, why add to their workload?

 

[mjr]

In the developed world that has advanced medical facilities, the real mortality rate is almost certainly under half a percent of the true infected numbers, if you include those not having symptoms. To suggest that the virus will gave a devastating effect on large parts of the population is simply scaremongering from a totally risk-averse standpoint.

Even if you're correct, half a percent of the UK population is ~330'000. Wiping out the population of Coventry or Nottingham is not a large part to you?

 

[Andy in Germany]

Depending on what source you go by, anything up to 70% of those catching the coronavirus do not even have any symptoms. Therefore those people are not actually ill, and are not prevented from functioning normally whilst infected. Of the remaining percentage who do get symptoms, a high proportion of those experience nothing worse than a heavy cold. That might put them out of action for a week. The number of people who get really ill, are hospitalised, or even die from the virus is only a tiny minority of the total, but these are the stats that the media obsesses about. In the developed world that has advanced medical facilities, the real mortality rate is almost certainly under half a percent of the true infected numbers, if you include those not having symptoms. To suggest that the virus will gave a devastating effect on large parts of the population is simply scaremongering from a totally risk-averse standpoint. The virus can be nasty and it can be fatal, but in the majority of cases it is neither of those things.

Even if you're correct, half a percent of the UK population is ~330'000. Wiping out the population of Coventry or Nottingham is not a large part to you?

Also doesn't explain why the UK,being part of the 'developed world' seems to have such a high infection and death rate compared to other parts of the developed world.

 

[MntnMan62]

I continue to be thoroughly amazed at how some people have so little regard for the lives of other people and instead place more importance on money. A vaccine will likely be developed that works, and will probably work well. It may take a little time for that to happen but it will happen. I don't see anything wrong with making people show some patience and continue with the lockdown so that tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of lives can be saved. The reality is a full lockdown wouldn't be as necessary if people would just use some common sense and social distance and wear a mask. But no. You can't tell me to wear a mask. I won't wear that thing. I can't breath. Sure, there may be some with psychological issues where a mask can bring full on panic attacks. Those people need to just stay home. There are tens of thousands of surgeons out there who wear masks all day long for hours at a time while they operate on people. Surely you can wear one for about 15 mintues or so while you go into a store. Sadly there are people who are just too selfish to be bothered to wear a mask at all. But it's those who won't social distance and wear a mask who create the spikes and surges of cases and increases in deaths. I believe in karma. Those who show so little regard for human life and put their own convenience ahead of the lives of others will get their just desserts. Karma is a biatch.

 

[midlife]

Hmm. The Trust are "actively managing" an outbreak at our Hospital. They have started testing all staff in clinical areas, think my test is on Monday.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/...ossibly-linked-cumberland-infirmary-outbreak/

And therein lies the problem. Hospitals never stopped their acute services and now routine activities are starting again. Patients are encouraged to attend for things like breast screening but don't want to come because of fear / anxiety over Covid.

 

[MntnMan62]

Just a reminder of what this virus has done. Over 12.7 million cases reported. The real number is likely much much larger. Just under 565,000 dead. And that number is also likely much much larger as I'm sure some countries aren't reporting anywhere near what is actually happening within their borders. And in my country, the screaming orange sphincter muscle has presided over 3.31 million cases and 137,000 deaths. Both those numbers are likely much larger since he has refused to undertake any centralized approach at testing. It's truly incredible what has happened in this country and what continues to happen in this country. And even more incredible the number of ridiculously stupid people who continue to support the screaming orange sphincter muscle.

 

[gbb]

Also doesn't explain why the UK,being part of the 'developed world' seems to have such a high infection and death rate compared to other parts of the developed world.

Going by my experience at work, a large sector of the workforce at the entry end are the reason. Agency, workers from communities that have no respect or simply dont understand. We all muck up occasionally, I did today, brought a bag of chips in Ely and leant across and picked up the salt and vinegar without thinking. Profuse apologies followed....but the levels of deliberate and concerted non compliance are staggering among hundreds of workers at my company. You really dont have to look far to realise why it's so bad here.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

And therein lies the problem. Hospitals never stopped their acute services and now routine activities are starting again. Patients are encouraged to attend for things like breast screening but don't want to come because of fear / anxiety over Covid.

The pro-lockdown zealots, of which there are plenty on here, are responsible for this, and it will store up a huge reservoir of dangerous medical conditions in the population. The message for the last few months has been the virus is really really dangerous so don't go anywhere and don't have any contact with anyone, otherwise you're doomed. Having been using non-stop fearmongering tactics to try and frighten the population into staying at home, now they've got a big problem reversing that message and telling people to get medical treatment or resume their normal routines that generate economic activity. There will be a significant amount of behavioral inertia that will not be instantly overcome and it will cause it's own problems.
That's why I have never believed in lockdowns and preferred an advisory self-restraint regime where individuals make a personal decision about how much they interact with or avoid everyone else. Sweden may have a fair bit of virus, but they have never been totally overwhelmed and they are in a much better position to quickly bounce back to normal daily life.
Success is not about just making one country look good in the global league tables, it's about minimising the collateral damage from the virus, both in economic and non-corona related medical terms. The truly worst hit places won't even appear in their real league positions because of having a dysfunctional medical system, being incompetent or corrupt, or just not producing reliable data.. Who really believes the numbers coming out of places like Iran or much of Africa? Even the worst reporting western countries where the data is at least credible, are going to be miles better off than many others below the media radar.

 

[qigong chimp]

The pro-lockdown zealots, of which there are plenty on here, are responsible for this...

Don't forget care homes, which didn't follow procedure.

 

[Rocky]

The truly worst hit places won't even appear in their real league positions because of having a dysfunctional medical system, being incompetent or corrupt, or just not producing reliable data..

Yes, that describes England’s response perfectly

 

[Julia9054]

The pro-lockdown zealots, of which there are plenty on here, are responsible for this, and it will store up a huge reservoir of dangerous medical conditions in the population. The message for the last few months has been the virus is really really dangerous so don't go anywhere and don't have any contact with anyone, otherwise you're doomed. Having been using non-stop fearmongering tactics to try and frighten the population into staying at home, now they've got a big problem reversing that message and telling people to get medical treatment or resume their normal routines that generate economic activity. There will be a significant amount of behavioral inertia that will not be instantly overcome and it will cause it's own problems.
That's why I have never believed in lockdowns and preferred an advisory self-restraint regime where individuals make a personal decision about how much they interact with or avoid everyone else. Sweden may have a fair bit of virus, but they have never been totally overwhelmed and they are in a much better position to quickly bounce back to normal daily life.
Success is not about just making one country look good in the global league tables, it's about minimising the collateral damage from the virus, both in economic and non-corona related medical terms. The truly worst hit places won't even appear in their real league positions because of having a dysfunctional medical system, being incompetent or corrupt, or just not producing reliable data.. Who really believes the numbers coming out of places like Iran or much of Africa? Even the worst reporting western countries where the data is at least credible, are going to be miles better off than many others below the media radar.

You keep quoting Sweden as an economic success story.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html
Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.
“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”
A quote from this article in the NY Times

 

[qigong chimp]

There will be a significant amount of behavioral inertia that will not be instantly overcome and it will cause it's own problems/.

Will there be? Or will we, with the selfless support of marketing and advertising and vouchers from HMG, soon be back in the swing of working our lives away in jobs we don't like that we might consume baubles and gewgaws that are neither beautiful nor useful, and whose manufacture and distribution are not sustainable?

 

[classic33]

The pro-lockdown zealots, of which there are plenty on here, are responsible for this, and it will store up a huge reservoir of dangerous medical conditions in the population. The message for the last few months has been the virus is really really dangerous so don't go anywhere and don't have any contact with anyone, otherwise you're doomed. Having been using non-stop fearmongering tactics to try and frighten the population into staying at home, now they've got a big problem reversing that message and telling people to get medical treatment or resume their normal routines that generate economic activity. There will be a significant amount of behavioral inertia that will not be instantly overcome and it will cause it's own problems.
That's why I have never believed in lockdowns and preferred an advisory self-restraint regime where individuals make a personal decision about how much they interact with or avoid everyone else. Sweden may have a fair bit of virus, but they have never been totally overwhelmed and they are in a much better position to quickly bounce back to normal daily life.
Success is not about just making one country look good in the global league tables, it's about minimising the collateral damage from the virus, both in economic and non-corona related medical terms. The truly worst hit places won't even appear in their real league positions because of having a dysfunctional medical system, being incompetent or corrupt, or just not producing reliable data.. Who really believes the numbers coming out of places like Iran or much of Africa? Even the worst reporting western countries where the data is at least credible, are going to be miles better off than many others below the media radar.

Storing up medical conditions!
Cancer, breast
Heart issues/problem
Bone thinning
CSF* leaks, due, they think to the bone thinning
Hole in right upper jaw, caused by the bone thinning. Operation required to correct.
All bar the first two as a result of epilepsy**

*That's the fluid round your brain, clear yellow, sweet tasting.

I've never had measles either, not that I want them either. Never had the jab either, the risks outweighed the benefit.

What you have to realise is that there are a whole load of folk, just like me(multiple health problems) that just want to get back to a normal life, but who aren't shouting from the rooftops that the current situation is a manufactured one. To that end, I am willing to get on living as best as I'm able. Without burdening the system any more, at present.

Added in edit
**The heart issue/problem may be down to anti-eplileptic medication that was taken for two years