corporal punishment - never did me any harm

[vernon]

do kids still find a bit of chalk flying into the side of their head these days? My physics teacher used to be fantastic shot... temple every time!

Chalk?

That's so last century.

White boards and dry wipe pens nowadays though it isn't unknown for a permanent marker to be swapped for a dry wipe every now and then

 

[growingvegetables]

The teachers that I know tell me they are not allowed to use any kind of physical restraint or force against a pupil. Even breaking up a fight is not allowed.

Sorry - neither are true.

Some of my colleagues were actually trained in appropriate physical restraint ..... in the context of a much larger training on techniques to prevent conflict, but handle it if/when prevention/diversion didn't work.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Sorry - neither are true.

Some of my colleagues were actually trained in appropriate physical restraint ..... in the context of a much larger training on techniques to prevent conflict, but handle it if/when prevention/diversion didn't work.

Interesting as Ed Balls has said teachers are allowed to intervene yet the Police seem to treat reports of such intervention as common assault. Clearly the guidance is vauge and not fully understood or even known about.

 

[growingvegetables]

Clearly the guidance is vauge and not fully understood or even known about.

Depends on the senior levels of management in the school. And on central government policies on exclusions - like penalising schools for excluding kids?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Depends on the senior levels of management in the school. And on central government policies on exclusions - like penalising schools for excluding kids?

Teachers can use physical restraint, says Ed Balls
Schools should not insist on a no-contact policy – physical force can be used to stop disruptive behaviour

Teachers must not be afraid to use physical force to break up playground fights and should march disruptive pupils out of the classroom, the schools secretary said today.

At least one member of staff in every school should have expert training in restraint techniques, according to new government guidance.

Teachers have said they fear legal action from parents if they try to control badly behaved students physically, and say children have told them: "You can't touch me or my mum will sue you."

But Balls said it was a myth that schools had to insist on "no contact" with pupils, and staff should not face retribution if they intervened when children were out of control.

"A no-contact policy is not required by law, and is not good leadership," he told the annual conference of the Nasuwt teachers' union.

When pupils were fighting and could hurt each other, deliberately damaging property, refusing to follow instructions to leave a class, or seriously disrupting a lesson or school activity such as a sports day, it was acceptable to use force – as a protective measure, not a disciplinary penalty.

Balls, who received a standing ovation from some delegates in Birmingham, warned that schools will be forced to bear the brunt of government spending cuts if the Tories win power at the general election, claiming a Conservative government would be forced to cut teacher numbers and raise class sizes.

Funding their promises to let parents set up their own schools and introduce a pupil premium would come from budget cuts to existing schools, he insisted, and it was "dishonest" of them not to say so.

"The only way to make the Conservative sums add up is by swingeing cuts to public services, or raising VAT, soon after the election," Balls said. The Tory plans meant "sacrificing some children's education to deliver excellence for a few children down the road", he added.

"I don't want only some parents to get the school they want, I want every parent to have a good school for their child to go to.

"It's so dishonest for the Conservatives to pretend to be Santa Claus without being clear that this will be paid for by cuts to school budgets."

On using restraint, he said: "Teachers have the powers they need to manage bad behaviour, but I am aware that many fear retribution if they were to forcibly remove an unruly pupil.

"This new guidance … makes clear that in some situations, teachers have the powers and protection to use force."

The guidance points out that in some cases, for instance if the disruptive pupil is particularly large, teachers should call for help before trying to tackle the troublemaker.

Balls also told journalists he regretted not moving more quickly to reform the social work profession, having seen teaching transformed.

"Many of the things you hear about social work – about demoralisation on the front line, the gap in understanding between management and professionals, having to leave frontline practice to be promoted … those are many of the things that characterised the teaching profession of 20 years ago," he said.



The section I have highlighted was the one I found interesting. Schools (I take it that means governors, Head Teachers) were under the impression that there had to be a no-contact policy. Thus it seems the previous government provided at best very confusing messages to some schools (or no one in the school actually read the guidance in the first place!). Either way I am glad to see that a level of sanity has been returned to schools.

 

[theclaud]

I got the cane [...] Never did me any harm

That is debatable...

 

[GrumpyGregry]

How, exactly, do you inflict corporal punishment on a 6' tall 14-year old?

At my comprehensive school it was called 'Rugby'. You got stood on the 25 yard line in the next PE lesson and were used as a tackle bag for 40 minutes. My mother thought I'd been beaten up.

and I was 6' 2" at 14, and I found a socially appropriate outlet for my aggressive tendencies from a succession of small welsh PE teachers.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I've got a 19 year old nephew who is thick as two short planks. he's never read a book and he never studies. He plays sport half the week and gets pissed half the week.

He's got a bag full of GCSE's, a few A levels and is currently at Uni.

What else do you expect a fresher to do then? It's exactly how I spent my time at my 'second go' at uni and I was 25! Backloading on degree courses is as old as the hills.

and the stuff about 16-year-olds getting free GCSE's and free flats, etc.? Hyperbolic nonsense.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

What else do you expect a fresher to do then? It's exactly how I spent my time at my 'second go' at uni and I was 25! Backloading on degree courses is as old as the hills.

and the stuff about 16-year-olds getting free GCSE's and free flats, etc.? Hyperbolic nonsense.

Year on year we see record numbers of GCSE passes. Have you ever looked at an equivalent O Level paper from teh 50's or 60's? They would put some degree standard examinations to shame!

 

[vernon]

The section I have highlighted was the one I found interesting. Some Schools (I take it that means governors, Head Teachers, but mainly head teachers) were under the impression decided that there had to be a no-contact policy in their fiefdoms. Thus it seems the previous government never provided at best very confusing messages to some any schools (or no one in the school actually read the guidance in the first place!). Either way I am glad to see that a level of sanity has been returned to schools.

Don't believe everything that you read in the newspapers. Theory and practice frequently diverge, largely at the behest of head teachers with a personal mission. Governing bodies, more often than, not are rubber-stamping bodies who are steered by the head teachers. It's always been clear to teaching staff that no-contact policies were never imposed or sanctioned by any government.

All of the current posturings is an effort to pull the errant non-contact policy schools into line by bypassing the head teachers and putting powere back into the hands of the teachers while simultaneously broadcasting the message to the pupils.

A lot of what goes on regarding individual cases/allegations against individual teachers and head teachers regarding contact/non contact issues and discipline is not so much to do with the law of the land but more to do with the internal politics of the school or LEA. Nearly all high profile incidents in the press have a back story that is never reported because it lacks the shock horror content that appeals to Daily Wail readers.

For once, this week, there was a degree of balance in the press.

A deputy head teacher who had allegations of violence made against him by a pupil that he was attempting to discipline was acquitted in court.
A head teacher who failed to support her staff when they asked for less tolerance of poor behaviour among the pupils resigned this week after being suspended after the staff went on strike.

Everyone can claim to be an expert in diagnosing the ills of the current education system and prescribing 'the fix'. What qualifies their expert status? They went to school once so they know what its like?

I don't profess to know everything that's wrong about the systems deployed within the UK education system but having been a consumer and a deliverer of education for forty two years I think that I have a better insight than the assemblers of sound bites that appeal to the populace. Delivering education is a complex business and could do with a major overhaul to simplify it. It's a bit like a large computer program written in a now largely redundant computer language. Very few folk know the code well enough to know what every command does and most are reluctant to tinker with the subroutines because they are frightened of the possible unwanted and unforeseen effects elsewhere. Instead, new bits are bolted on, fingers are crossed and the everyone hopes for the best. Meanwhile managers want the whole lot rewritten and deployed to meet their hastily scribbled down specs and performance criteria and are not fault tolerant.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Don't believe everything that you read in the newspapers. Theory and practice frequently diverge, largely at the behest of head teachers with a personal mission. Governing bodies, more often than, not are rubber-stamping bodies who are steered by the head teachers. It's always been clear to teaching staff that no-contact policies were never imposed or sanctioned by any government.

All of the current posturings is an effort to pull the errant non-contact policy schools into line by bypassing the head teachers and putting powere back into the hands of the teachers while simultaneously broadcasting the message to the pupils.

A lot of what goes on regarding individual cases/allegations against individual teachers and head teachers regarding contact/non contact issues and discipline is not so much to do with the law of the land but more to do with the internal politics of the school or LEA. Nearly all high profile incidents in the press have a back story that is never reported because it lacks the shock horror content that appeals to Daily Wail readers.

For once, this week, there was a degree of balance in the press.

A deputy head teacher who had allegations of violence made against him by a pupil that he was attempting to discipline was acquitted in court.
A head teacher who failed to support her staff when they asked for less tolerance of poor behaviour among the pupils resigned this week after being suspended after the staff went on strike.

Everyone can claim to be an expert in diagnosing the ills of the current education system and prescribing 'the fix'. What qualifies their expert status? They went to school once so they know what its like?

I don't profess to know everything that's wrong about the systems deployed within the UK education system but having been a consumer and a deliverer of education for forty two years I think that I have a better insight than the assemblers of sound bites that appeal to the populace. Delivering education is a complex business and could do with a major overhaul to simplify it. It's a bit like a large computer program written in a now largely redundant computer language. Very few folk know the code well enough to know what every command does and most are reluctant to tinker with the subroutines because they are frightened of the possible unwanted and unforeseen effects elsewhere. Instead, new bits are bolted on, fingers are crossed and the everyone hopes for the best. Meanwhile managers want the whole lot rewritten and deployed to meet their hastily scribbled down specs and performance criteria and are not fault tolerant.

If the reality is/was as you have reflected in my post modified by you - Why had the coalition (or at least Ed Balls) provided new guidance?

 

[theclaud]

mmm how do we deal with a 13 year old rolling a fag and telling the teacher to f**k o** ? apart from that his reg disruption of the class ,is robbing other children from there rightfull education? i dont think that beating children is right but we should be able to deal robustly and firmly with this sort of behaviour, that mean physical, as he is under the mistaken imprestion that he is stronger and tougher than anyone else, and he knows bully and swearing work for him.i advocate nothing but am looking for sujestions.

Speak You're Branes seems to be spamming CycleChat again...

 

[srw]

It's funny when you look back at the teachers you had, the strict ones were always the best.

Bollocks. The best teachers were the ones best able to engage the mind - the two I remember with the most affection were two of the most lenient around, but both really taught me things of value. The strict teachers were lousy, and used discipline as a substitute for ability to inspire.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Bollocks. The best teachers were the ones best able to engage the mind - the two I remember with the most affection were two of the most lenient around, but both really taught me things of value. The strict teachers were lousy, and used discipline as a substitute for ability to inspire.

I am split on this one. The teaches I remember with most fondness were the strict but fair ones. They also had the ability to engage minds. My English teacher for example was a star. Everyone had a huge amount of respect for him but we still played around. Once we swapped the entire classroom around (a mirror of itself). He walked in, completely unphased and began the lesson. We did miss break when we had to put the room back however.

On the other hand we had a chemistry teacher who enjoyed being one of the lads. "Gather around and watch whilst I pour acid onto this magnesium strip inside the bell jar" I was partially sighted for the rest of the day!!! I learned nothing about chemistry and it was the only subject I failed to get an O level in.

 

[srw]

Speak You're Branes seems to be spamming CycleChat again...

It's a terrible indictment of youth today.

Err... hang on. SYB is 52.

It's a terrible indictment of the lax educational standards of the 1960s.