Cricket thread
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midlandsgrimpeur
Senior Member
It certainly didn't help but I still think the major thing is the current team environment and the mindset it has created. England under Stokes and McCullum have engineered a very specific way they prepare and play in test cricket, not just tactically, but with the selections, this thing of picking players who have no track record because Stokes has seen something in them etc. They remind me a bit of modern corporate culture where people present themselves as 'disruptors'. I think they have wanted to break the established norms in an attempt to do things differently. I don't necessarily have an issue with this, it has brought some memorable and incredible test moments.
The problem is that the traditional ways of doing things are usually just so because they work. The current regime was always going to run out of steam at some point and this setup has created an environment where they do not have the knowledge and experience to draw on to change things, as they have a group of players where only two of them, Stokes and Root, have that traditional test cricket background. I know a lot of people have said throughout the series that the players need to change. I think the major issue is that they can't, because they have never learnt to play the way a lot of people want them to play.
matticus
Guru
Don't think I need to read it - he was pretty forthright during his radio post-match analysis!
(I don't completely agree with him, but he has a slilghtly better CV than me, so is entitled to say what he thinks! And he's right about most aspects ...)
This is the whole problem the culture that has been allowed to grow is not allowing any other thinking or ideas to even get a look in. It's become a total closed shop with no way of anyone outside. The current set up even having a faint hope of of a look in. On the back of that it's looks practically imposable to lose your place in the shop. The total lack of respect of even the basic craft of cricket is saddest thing in all this.
midlandsgrimpeur
Senior Member
I think that is fair. They (as in Stokes/McCullum/Key) do seem to have become very myopic in their approach. I understand having a clear idea of how you want to do things, but you need to still remain open to other ideas, especially when you aren't winning. I hope they bring in a bit more balance to their approach overall, there is clearly talent in the squad, but it needs a bit of moulding.
For that to happen the whole thing needs blowing wide open , they need someone like Iiingworth to do what he did and bring the whole team and wider England set up down to earth. Reminding them they are playing cricket and not off on some sort 18-30 lads outing.
For me if the ECB is really serious all 3 of them would be gone and that just for starters. They are have too much invested in their way of going things to fully buy into what changers are really needed.
Pross
Veteran
Dan Roan yesterday said "English cricket has suffered in Australia before, but rarely like this". This feels like an odd comment considering they actually won a Test in this series whereas they hadn't won a single Test in the previous 3 series. Sums up Dan Roan's abilities as a sport editor.
laurentian
Well-Known Member
There was a famous cricketer (like really famous but, to my embarrassment, his name escapes me right now - wicket keeper I think) on the radio last night dissecting the Ashes performance and England's approach to the game.
He was saying that, when he played for England, he would always play in a way that that leaned towards the "probable" outcome. So, to simplify, if you only attack a ball that is off stumps, sitting at the right height, bouncing on the right length or whatever, you will probably score runs and preserve your wicket. He then went on to say that, as entertaining as it is at times*, this England side seem lean towards the "possible" i.e. having a swing at absolutely anything as it is "possible" that this shot will go for four or six or at least some runs . . . this often leads to a loss of wicket. I though that quite an eloquent way of describing England under McCullum and Stokes - the difference between the "probable" and the "possible"
*He then went on to say that any England fan would have been "entertained" had England won the Ashes by playing turgid, patient and, to some, "boring" cricket.
He was saying that, when he played for England, he would always play in a way that that leaned towards the "probable" outcome. So, to simplify, if you only attack a ball that is off stumps, sitting at the right height, bouncing on the right length or whatever, you will probably score runs and preserve your wicket. He then went on to say that, as entertaining as it is at times*, this England side seem lean towards the "possible" i.e. having a swing at absolutely anything as it is "possible" that this shot will go for four or six or at least some runs . . . this often leads to a loss of wicket. I though that quite an eloquent way of describing England under McCullum and Stokes - the difference between the "probable" and the "possible"
*He then went on to say that any England fan would have been "entertained" had England won the Ashes by playing turgid, patient and, to some, "boring" cricket.
laurentian
Well-Known Member
It was Matt Prior - here at 12.46 if anyone is interested: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002qg3f
he's not the best journalist, certainly not when it comes to stories in pro cycling, but I think he had a point there. did anyone enjoy the Melbourne test as a spectacle ? did it really feel like a win, or just Australia did that thing where theyve already won the Ashes anyway and they just lost a dead rubber on a slightly juicy wicket which was a bit of a lottery for both teams who often seem incapable of concentrating long enough to last more than a couple of days unless the pitch is a complete road. England won the game because they were just slightly less bad than Australia were. Which is a very unAustralian approach to sport in general but this Australian team arent exactly being overly complimented in the same way as previous Ashes winning teams have been.
whilst the rest of this tour, never has so much expectation been doused so quickly, people thought this series would be really competitive, it took only 2 days in Perth to shatter that illusion. I dont think England have been this bad in Australia before in my lifetime, and I was out there in 2006/07 when we got beaten 5-0, at least we could say wow that Australian team had some of their best players of a generation and we tried to play our best and competed in some games too, and yet still got soundly beaten.
Im only glad I didnt book to go this time as I had been thinking of doing earlier last year.
AndyRM
XOXO
- Location
- North Shields
Er, nope. That was even worse.
English cricket is in a fairly shambolic state currently.
