Cricket thread

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Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
England are now very much in a process of change.
The team looks very unsettled and the next couple of years will be interesting.
Will Root want to be captain? If not him then who.
 

Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
Well this final innings is the perfect encapsulation of the Stokes / Bazball era.

High run rate, crazy attacking shots, silly run outs and ultimately an easy defeat.
 
Well this final innings is the perfect encapsulation of the Stokes / Bazball era.

High run rate, crazy attacking shots, silly run outs and ultimately an easy defeat.
The stats of the Stokes era do not agree with you.
"
Stokes has captained his country 44 times in Tests and has a win percentage of 54.54%, having won 24 games and lost 17.

In terms of numbers, no other captain who has led England in more than 40 matches in Tests has a higher win percentage than Stokes. The next best is Michael Vaughan, who had a win percentage of 50.98 in 51 matches.

However, for all the success that he had, the 35-year-old failed to achieve the two biggest honours in Test cricket- the Ashes, and defeating India in India."

... and I believe he is still ahead in Tests against NZL.
 

Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
The stats of the Stokes era do not agree with you.
"
Stokes has captained his country 44 times in Tests and has a win percentage of 54.54%, having won 24 games and lost 17.

In terms of numbers, no other captain who has led England in more than 40 matches in Tests has a higher win percentage than Stokes. The next best is Michael Vaughan, who had a win percentage of 50.98 in 51 matches.

However, for all the success that he had, the 35-year-old failed to achieve the two biggest honours in Test cricket- the Ashes, and defeating India in India."

... and I believe he is still ahead in Tests against NZL.

I can’t deny the stats, but.
My perception is there are times when England could have played more conservatively for a draw, or even a glorious rear guard defeat,
But this never seemed to be his way. It was only ever win the game or go down swinging.
And maybe that just doesn’t sit well with my idea of what Test cricket is/was.
 

Pross

Guru
They could definitely have played more conservatively at times and I suspect the grounds would have been glad of an extra day of play on many occasions but if they changed style and lost there would still have been critics. I like the positive attitude and entertaining cricket, that's not to say there haven't been moments where players have just played stupid cricket and got out needlessly but that is more to do with poor decisions than the actual ethos.
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
I'm very glad the days of
  • run rates of 2.5 per over
  • batting to take time out of the game
  • ensuring you cant lose before you try to win
  • etc
are hopefully well behind us.

I wouldn't be surprised if McCullum and Key step down at some point this summer
 
OP
OP
rich p

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
It was fun while it lasted... except on the occasions it wasn't.
It worked better in the beginning with Bairstow and Butler and Stokes crashing the ball everywhere.
Not sure where Brook will take this team if he gets the gig given the tarnished legacy.
 

geocycle

Squire
Vaughan made a good point about the last innings. Last night they were 50 for 0 and had caused chaos, spread the field and set up a realistic if slim chance to chase the huge target. Instead of consolidating they continued the berserker antics and lost 4 wickets in half a hour. That’s not the way you win, it’s not smart and frustrating for the fans.
 

katiewlx

Senior Member
They could definitely have played more conservatively at times and I suspect the grounds would have been glad of an extra day of play on many occasions but if they changed style and lost there would still have been critics. I like the positive attitude and entertaining cricket, that's not to say there haven't been moments where players have just played stupid cricket and got out needlessly but that is more to do with poor decisions than the actual ethos.

it wasnt about playing conservatively at times, it was about adapting to conditions and the opposition, there are times to swing the bat hard, there are times when you take stock and think about what you are doing first, thats why its like as Boycott always said Test cricket, because its a real Test not just of your technique, your skill, your bravery but your mental capacity to think across yes possibly 5 days of hard cricket, its not the hit and giggle stuff thats just slam bang done in an afternoon.

and yes that is the ethos of the Stokes era of captaincy, maybe it was Bazball in the beginning but I question how much influence he has over the players anymore as they dont appear to be paying any attention to him, Id like to hope in a few years to come, I read Roots tell all biography who spills actually what the power dynamic among the players v management was as theres clearly been misalignment since before the Ashes, and a completely dysfunctional setup as a result.

as for Key I might well think he is terribly unsuited to the job, but the reality is whoever the ECB picks for it is going to follow the same routes to things, say the same things to the press and generally appear just as disconnected.
 

cisamcgu

Squire
Location
Merseyside-ish
The stats of the Stokes era do not agree with you.
"
Stokes has captained his country 44 times in Tests and has a win percentage of 54.54%, having won 24 games and lost 17.

In terms of numbers, no other captain who has led England in more than 40 matches in Tests has a higher win percentage than Stokes. The next best is Michael Vaughan, who had a win percentage of 50.98 in 51 matches.

However, for all the success that he had, the 35-year-old failed to achieve the two biggest honours in Test cricket- the Ashes, and defeating India in India."

... and I believe he is still ahead in Tests against NZL.

Interesting. This led me to have a nose at the stats, and it turns out only one England captain prior to1993 (Atherton) was in charge for more than 40 games (Peter May if you are interested). We obviously play a LOT more test cricket now, I wonder if that makes a difference to a captains success rate ?
 

midlandsgrimpeur

Über Member
Stokes is a special player and clearly a much admired leader, but the whole way he has handled this retirement, the timing of the announcement in particular, felt a bit lacking in class.
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
On Win % yes Stokes is highest ranks, but he also lost ost of the ones he didn't win with the shoot or bust approach, if you look at Wins:losses or Result % Wins / Games excl Draws, then the picture is a little different. Its also hard to factor in comparative strengths of teams

PWLDW/LW%R%
Douglas Jardine159159.060.090.0
Mike Brearley3118494.558.181.8
Len Hutton2311482.847.873.3
Ray Illingworth31125142.438.770.6
Michael Vaughan512611142.451.070.3
Andrew Strauss502411152.248.068.6
Peter May412010112.048.866.7
Ben Stokes44241821.354.557.1
Nasser Hussain451715131.137.853.1
Alistair Cook592422131.140.752.2
Joe Root652727111.041.550.0
Mike Atherton541321200.624.138.2

*Eng captains over 40 games plus selected others.
 

midlandsgrimpeur

Über Member
On Win % yes Stokes is highest ranks, but he also lost ost of the ones he didn't win with the shoot or bust approach, if you look at Wins:losses or Result % Wins / Games excl Draws, then the picture is a little different. Its also hard to factor in comparative strengths of teams

PWLDW/LW%R%
Douglas Jardine159159.060.090.0
Mike Brearley3118494.558.181.8
Len Hutton2311482.847.873.3
Ray Illingworth31125142.438.770.6
Michael Vaughan512611142.451.070.3
Andrew Strauss502411152.248.068.6
Peter May412010112.048.866.7
Ben Stokes44241821.354.557.1
Nasser Hussain451715131.137.853.1
Alistair Cook592422131.140.752.2
Joe Root652727111.041.550.0
Mike Atherton541321200.624.138.2

*Eng captains over 40 games plus selected others.

This is a good point, Stokes captained a lot of tests we could/should have won. The others captained a lot of teams that arguably weren't as competitive, particularly Atherton who had to face much stronger Aussie and Windies teams.
 
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