CycleChat Investigates - J. Arthur Rank

Fraud - should banks refund the victims?

  • Yes, absolutely.

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • No, never.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, but not if the victim has been negligent themselves - not fair on the banks otherwise

    Votes: 8 38.1%
  • I don't have a tv/smartphone/car/bank account

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I keep my money under the mattress

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • I'm a scammer so don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • My mysterious and wealthy Nigerian uncle has just died

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Bank? that rhymes with w...

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
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Drago

Legendary Member
Banks. We love to hate them. Even more so when there's fraud and they won't help.

But is it fair on the banks that they should refund customers who become victims because of their own negligence or ill advised behaviour?

In the closing days of 2020 it is only right that the wise philosophers of CycleChat decide the issue.
 

Juan Kog

permanently grumpy
When I saw the thread title and Drago's name attached to it . Well I thought it was going to be about an activity that would see the thread very quickly shutdown by the mods.:laugh: (Even this post may disappear quickly)
 

Cycleops

Legendary Member
Location
Accra, Ghana
Despite the jokey title and his foregoing comment @Drago has raised an important question. It’s a drop in the ocean compared to all the dodgy stuff they’ve got away with over the years so they should compensate victims even if they were partially to blame. But will they?
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
I pretty much detest banks & for that matter insurance companies but they are both a necessary evil, yes they do have to make money to exist, but do they really need to make that much at their customers expense. If you force them into the situation where they have to pay out for these types of fraud then all they will do is make life more difficult for everybody else. They will stop immediate transfers, or put blocks in place to slow the process down, add human intervention along with the associated cost.

I took a deposit on a car a couple of months ago, on the understanding that I would deliver it & if it wasn't what he wanted I kept the deposit. I drove 120 miles down to him, it was exactly as described & what he wanted, so he got his phone out, transferred the money across to my account, seconds later I got a text message to say it had arrived. If they have to pay out for these unlucky souls all of that will stop.
 
OP
OP
Drago

Drago

Legendary Member
Good point from Brother cycleops.

On the one hand, why should banks refund people who've been foolish or negligent?

On the other, the banks have behaved dreadfully over the years, brought the world's economy to its knees, and were never brought to book or made to pay for their risky actions (except in Iceland), so why should we care when the boot is on the other foot and it's the banks turn to take a kicking?
 

Bazzer

Setting the controls for the heart of the sun.
IMO it's a difficult question.
For example, a couple of times Mrs B has opened emails or messages which to my mind were clearly scams and on at least one occasion went as far as stopping just before pressing the final "send " button. She has got better at recognising scams or what to do if she is suspicious, but some she gets are clever and a world apart from the poor punctuation and spelling of the (to use a generic term) Nigerian Prince scam emails.
On the other hand, if the bank had to pay up, it isn't going to be difficult to arrange a scam which sees the "scammed" money benefiting the "scammed" person. It would in effect be money laundering and even for larger sums of money, that is relatively straightforward to achieve. Smaller sums would be easy to wash.
 

byegad

Legendary Member
Location
NE England
Banks. We love to hate them. Even more so when there's fraud and they won't help.

But is it fair on the banks that they should refund customers who become victims because of their own negligence or ill advised behaviour?

In the closing days of 2020 it is only right that the wise philosophers of CycleChat decide the issue.
My pet hate is the refunds for what used to be called option mortgages, the one where you paid only interest on your mortgage and then paid the money you would have been using to pay off the capital to invest in a product that would not only pay off the loan but make you loadsamoney.
It came as no surprise in Byegad Towers when the investments, not only failed to make the afore said loadsamoney, but didn't even pay off the loan. Then the greedy people who'd been duped, got a pay off to cover their mortgages. Sorry but that was a pay off to compensate the stupid.
Since when did I have to pay for the mistakes stupid people make?
 
J. Arthur Rank was yet another one of Hull's great sons.

Quite apt at this time of year, as we get a mention in the Nativity Story, as three wise men came from the East Riding on a donkey.

As for banks, they're a necessary evil abused by the unscrupulous and materialistic and fueled by the devil's spawn in marketing companies.
 
OP
OP
Drago

Drago

Legendary Member
My pet hate is the refunds for what used to be called option mortgages, the one where you paid only interest on your mortgage and then paid the money you would have been using to pay off the capital to invest in a product that would not only pay off the loan but make you loadsamoney.
It came as no surprise in Byegad Towers when the investments, not only failed to make the afore said loadsamoney, but didn't even pay off the loan. Then the greedy people who'd been duped, got a pay off to cover their mortgages. Sorry but that was a pay off to compensate the stupid.
Since when did I have to pay for the mistakes stupid people make?
Not necessarily stupid. When I bought my first flat the only mortgage anyone would give me was an endownment, because of my "dangerous" profession. I knew that was a bollards excuse because I'd have to be insured anyway, so if I karked it the mortgage would be covered.

So I knew it was hokum, but had little choice if I even wanted to buy a house. A lot of coppers too had the same problem in the 90's. That was deliberate miss-selling, and it was quite right and proper that the banks concerned paid for their shady practices.

However, as you say, some people simply thought they were being clever and went for one because they thought they'd be rolling in lolly. In the case of them then I would have some sympathy with your view.
 

Supersuperleeds

Legendary Member
Location
Leicester
J. Arthur Rank was yet another one of Hull's great sons.

Quite apt at this time of year, as we get a mention in the Nativity Story, as three wise men came from the East Riding on a donkey.

As for banks, they're a necessary evil abused by the unscrupulous and materialistic and fueled by the devil's spawn in marketing companies.

The three wise men can't have come from Hull, must have been Beverley.
 

byegad

Legendary Member
Location
NE England
Not necessarily stupid. When I bought my first flat the only mortgage anyone would give me was an endownment, because of my "dangerous" profession. I knew that was a bollards excuse because I'd have to be insured anyway, so if I karked it the mortgage would be covered.

So I knew it was hokum, but had little choice if I even wanted to buy a house. A lot of coppers too had the same problem in the 90's. That was deliberate miss-selling, and it was quite right and proper that the banks concerned paid for their shady practices.

However, as you say, some people simply thought they were being clever and went for one because they thought they'd be rolling in lolly. In the case of them then I would have some sympathy with your view.
Yes. When I got my First mortgage, 1975 IIRC, the broker insisted I could only have an endowment mortgage. I called to building society, remember them, and they said absolute nonsense. They got me my repayment mortgage no bother. We over-paid almost from month one and 11 yrs later when we moved there were 18months worth of payments outstanding on the '25 yr' mortgage.
 
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