Cyclicts need to accept crap car driving.

[Origamist]

Have done. Have also read much literature which supports the opposing view.

Then it goes to show how we are both apt to feed our confirmation bias ...

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Why should they think its ok behaviour to cut us up - why else did some idiot decide that he needed to overtake and pull in immediately in front of me. Yes I did shout at him - just asked for more space. If unchallenged it just becomes acceptable behaviour - "the norm". Also a close encounter seen by other road users may put them off ever getting out on a bike. I frequently meet people who are too scared to cycle with traffic. And I have had moments when I have been really scared by close calls myself.

Surely the driver regarded it as 'acceptable' already hence they did it? If they already thought it unacceptable why did they cut you up? What constitutes being cut up - a general working definition would be useful as it is a highly subjective judgement I think. Forcing you to change direction and/or speed. Will that do?

Will your challenge (images of slap with a kid glove comes to mind) escalate matters or calm things down? Will it make them reform? Do you really think so? I'd suggest it is more about the cyclist dealing with their own fight or flight responses via a confrontation with the driver....

(but remember I'm being deliberately a devils advocate here)

I too meet people frightened to cycle on the roads, many of them are, ironically, motorised who feel terror-stricken by the behaviour of some, particularly urban, cyclists who, they feel, take unnecessary risks, and are just a bloomin' nuisance. I'm not an ambassador for cycling and I'd rather people were realistic about the risks (see our road casualty figures) of riding on the road.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Then it goes to show how we are both apt to feed our confirmation bias ...

As it happens I strongly tend towards the views expressed in "traffic:...." but wanted to read around the subject a little more widely (and am now pratting about doing Psychology via distance learning as a result) However iirc "lone cyclist having a pop at driver" was not one of the recommended suggested approaches for encouraging behaviour change.

 

[Origamist]

GG,

Have you seen this:

http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/r...ty/report_drivers_perceptions_of_cyclists.htm

 

[summerdays]

Surely the driver regarded it as 'acceptable' already hence they did it? If they already thought it unacceptable why did they cut you up? What constitutes being cut up - a general working definition would be useful as it is a highly subjective judgement I think. Forcing you to change direction and/or speed. Will that do?

Well today I had to apply the brakes and move closer to the pavement as the back of the van came close to touching my front wheel. Cut up probably implies that you had to make some change to direction/speed etc I would say.

Will your challenge (images of slap with a kid glove comes to mind) escalate matters or calm things down? Will it make them reform? Do you really think so? I'd suggest it is more about the cyclist dealing with their own fight or flight responses via a confrontation with the driver....

(but remember I'm being deliberately a devils advocate here)

I have no idea - but I watched a program about how social attitudes have changed about respect the other day, and it seemed to imply (to me) that we are too tolerant of bad behaviour and turn to face the other way to avoid confronting it. A shout might make some people question whether they could of past the cyclist better. Doing nothing certainly isn't going to change their opinions.

I too meet people frightened to cycle on the roads, many of them are, ironically, motorised who feel terror-stricken by the behaviour of some, particularly urban, cyclists who, they feel, take unnecessary risks, and are just a bloomin' nuisance. I'm not an ambassador for cycling and I'd rather people were realistic about the risks (see our road casualty figures) of riding on the road.

I would like to think I was a mini ambassador for cycling - and I'm prepared to talk to those who want to know more. Just yesterday someone who I don't know stuck up a conversation about what it was like to cycle in Bristol, wasn't it too hilly - was it faster than walking etc. I spent 15 mins chatting to her - maybe she will give it a go - I told her where she could get adult training too. Most adults who think cycling risky wouldn't think that driving their car was risky at all - yet look at how many car accidents there are. Cycling risks are over inflated in the general populations mind.

 

[Jeremy Parker]

I am a born again cyclist, ride about 60/70 miles per week , 6 mile round trip to work x 3 then most of my local trips to shops library etc.Then a couple of rides purely for fun.

I get badly cut up by "have to pass the bike car drivers" people pull out in front of me when Im going fast, etc etc bla bla.

[snip]

.

John Franklin's "Cyclecraft" is the bible on such matters. It's one of those books, like the "Highway Code" that every cyclist should own, or at least, borrow from the library to look at

Jeremy Parker

 

[summerdays]

John Franklin's "Cyclecraft" is the bible on such matters. It's one of those books, like the "Highway Code" that every cyclist should own, or at least, borrow from the library to look at

Jeremy Parker

Definitely - I own 3 copies (bought one and was given 2 - editions 2 and 3), and lend out the spare copies to new cyclists.

 

[ComedyPilot]

OT ?????

What next, people must accept bullys, women should accept domestic violence, coloured people should put up with racial abuse.........?

Bad and dangerous driving as well as bad behaviour should be challenged at once. To do nothing is not an option.

It goes the other way too, bad cycling should be challenged and dealt with.

 

[HJ]

I am a born again cyclist, ride about 60/70 miles per week , 6 mile round trip to work x 3 then most of my local trips to shops library etc.Then a couple of rides purely for fun.

I get badly cut up by "have to pass the bike car drivers" people pull out in front of me when Im going fast, etc etc bla bla.

Crap car drivers / drunk car drivers / aggresive car drivers are everywhere. They are IMHO however a tiny minority of drivers ,far more drivers will give you loads of room but you dont notice those.

My take on this as a beginner(only about 6 months regular riding since teenage years) is its up to me to realize that car drivers are incompetent/drunk/aggresive and ride accordingly.

Im not trying top be controversial here but I think some cyclists do the rest of us a dis service by winding up car drivers so they hate all of us .

On a narrow country road when its safe I pull over to let cars go by,seems sensible to me.Slow down enjoy the ride and dont get stressed .

Maybe my thoughts and observations dont apply in big cities ,I live in a small town and most of my rides are in rural areas.

Why should we subservient to drivers? We have just as much right to use the road as they do. Try reading a copy of Cyclecraft, then you will learn why cyclist choose to ride in the primary position, it is safer...

 

[hackbike 666]

I don't think Cyclecraft was around when I first started cycle commuting (1981).Neither was the internet for that matter.

Looks like I managed all those years.

Im sorry to bang on about it again but I get really tired of being told how I should cycle.That means I will either cycle defensively of in primary.Whatever I think best at the time.

I also cycle within the rules and regulations which means I don't disregard traffic signals.

 

[Banjo]

Why should we subservient to drivers? We have just as much right to use the road as they do. Try reading a copy of Cyclecraft, then you will learn why cyclist choose to ride in the primary position, it is safer...

If you read my post you wont find anything saying you shouldnt cycle in the primary position when its appropriate.Letting a line of cars get by is not a question of being subservient,its just common courtesy.

If driving a car stuck behind a jcb do you say they have every right to rumble along at 20 mph with a mile of cars behind?They do have the right but common sense and courtesy dictates they will ease over into a layby now and then .

 

[marinyork]

If you read my post you wont find anything saying you shouldnt cycle in the primary position when its appropriate.Letting a line of cars get by is not a question of being subservient,its just common courtesy.

If driving a car stuck behind a jcb do you say they have every right to rumble along at 20 mph with a mile of cars behind?They do have the right but common sense and courtesy dictates they will ease over into a layby now and then .

Where do you draw the limit? I regularly go down a hill that is narrow and 30mph. I'm very often doing 20 and sometimes close to 30mph. Because of the dangerous camber on the road and poor surface in the gutter I take an ultra primary position. Am I pissing motorists off? No. If I go further to the left there's every chance of going off the road and over the steep bank at the other side (no really). Even if I didn't it would not be safe to go on the left as people squeezing past would be a danger to other road traffic. Even if I were doing 10 or 15mph the same would be the case. Am I winding motorists up? No. Do they think I'm winding them up and honk all the time? Yes. If the road were wider and not badly surfaced would I pull over on some occasions and let traffic past? Yes. Do motorists understand the difference? Probably not. Have I occasionally pissed a motorist off that gave me loads of abuse, honking when I was doing a speed appropriate by slowing down. Yes, but not often.

 

[purplepolly]

Letting a line of cars get by is not a question of being subservient,its just common courtesy.
.

It is indeed, common courtesy, but it would be nice to get the same treatment in return. Here follows 3 examples from a normal days commute.

1. A right turn from a side road into a traffic queue, drivers in the queue will invariably leave a gap to let drivers out (this has always happened when I'm in the car). How many times do you think it's happened when I'm cycling? Never.

2. A left turn into a traffic queue followed immediately by a right (a kind of staggered crossroads). Drivers always leave a gap at the first junction for cars to get out, as soon as I appear in view, they invariably and pdq start to close the gap because they think I'll get in front of them.

3. A right turn onto a cycle path, usually just before a queue of about 30 cars. The car behind will be a some way off, I'll move into primary, check behind, signal, check behind. Almost invariably at that point the driver behind is starting to overtake in his desperation to get into the circa 2 car gap in front of me and the back of the queue.

These all happened today, although I had to laugh when example 3 happened. The vehicle had the following website emblazoned all over it britishcycling.org.uk

 

[hackbike 666]

There are times to use primary although I wouldn't think all the time.Perhaps I just do subconciously.Actually im pretty sure I do.

 

[summerdays]

I can't imagine any cyclist advocating using primary position all the time - that really would piss off motorists - however many non cycling motorists don't understand why we would use primary position at all.