Cyclicts need to accept crap car driving.

[GrumpyGregry]

No - a common mistake though. Under the Napoleonic Code system, which applies in most of southern Europe, something is effectively illegal unless there is a law legalising it.

Under the Common Law system which applies in the UK and most of Northern Europe, something is illegal unless there is a law prohibiting it.

It's just a different way of looking at the same context.

thank you for the clarification

 

[GrumpyGregry]

GG,

Have you seen this:

http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/r...ty/report_drivers_perceptions_of_cyclists.htm

I think I remember reading that, or reading about it, when it came out. Will download and refresh given current academic interest in such things. Thanks.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

These all happened today, although I had to laugh when example 3 happened. The vehicle had the following website emblazoned all over it britishcycling.org.uk

I find any vehicle displaying a connection with any sort of cycling to be nearly always badly driven. 4WD's festooned with MTB's being the worst offenders.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I have no idea - but I watched a program about how social attitudes have changed about respect the other day, and it seemed to imply (to me) that we are too tolerant of bad behaviour and turn to face the other way to avoid confronting it. A shout might make some people question whether they could of past the cyclist better. Doing nothing certainly isn't going to change their opinions.

Not trying to pick a fight honest but.... in what way is shouting at people an example of good behaviour that we want others to copy? In what way is it anything but an escalation (of existing violence) in the situation? I'm fairly sure chinning such a driver would leave a more lasting impression and therefore would be more likely to bring about the behaviour change we are all seeking however the end does not justify the means.

I would like to think I was a mini ambassador for cycling - and I'm prepared to talk to those who want to know more. Just yesterday someone who I don't know stuck up a conversation about what it was like to cycle in Bristol, wasn't it too hilly - was it faster than walking etc. I spent 15 mins chatting to her - maybe she will give it a go - I told her where she could get adult training too. Most adults who think cycling risky wouldn't think that driving their car was risky at all - yet look at how many car accidents there are. Cycling risks are over inflated in the general populations mind.

Risk perception is a fascinating thing. Take the example of mobile phones. Hardly anyone wants a mast to go up outside their childs' primary school, yet the same people buy their children mobiles. Which does more damage the large powerful microwave transmitter a good distance away or the small less powerful transmitter pressed to the side of your loved ones skull? One risk you choose to take the other you have forced upon you. Thus one is acceptable becuase you feel you can control it whilst the other is not becuase you can't.

THere seems to be a parallel here with driving vs cycling. People believe car accidents are something that happens to other people, they can control thier own risks, and besides isn't their car super safe with ETC ABS Air bags etc.. Cyclists are just exposed to the risks genereated by all the other road users, and are totally vulnerable.

If one of my loved ones decided they wanted to take up cycling on the road I would have a serious chat and try to insist they take training. Whilst the risks are perceived to be greater than they are it is still a very risky activity especially when compared to traditionally 'dangerous' sports like say Rugby Union and Horse Riding. Similarly, whilst I've been a motorcylist for most of my adult life I refused to allow my daughter to get a scooter at 17. Hypocritical? Possibly.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I find 4WD's festooned with cheap, dual suspension MTB-shaped objects the worse...

You're not wrong but there is a class of all-the-gear-no-idea-loadsamoney MTB'er around here who are worse.

e.g. Last weekend I was brushed on the shoulder by the rear wheel of a Whyte full susser rack mounted on the rear a big merc as it tried to squeeze past me on a single track road. Scarely 50 metres further on the driver stopped, I guess his talking dashboard was shouting at him and telling him he'd blown it as it was a no through road and he was way, way, past the car park. I reckon he had a total of £10-£12k's worth of MTB on there. Still drove (and as I observed later rode) like a total bell end.

 

[summerdays]

Not trying to pick a fight honest but.... in what way is shouting at people an example of good behaviour that we want others to copy? In what way is it anything but an escalation (of existing violence) in the situation? I'm fairly sure chinning such a driver would leave a more lasting impression and therefore would be more likely to bring about the behaviour change we are all seeking however the end does not justify the means.

I'm female - I'm not likely to go around hitting other people in cars... if I shout its to make them aware of my presence - usually its not even rude.

If one of my loved ones decided they wanted to take up cycling on the road I would have a serious chat and try to insist they take training. Whilst the risks are perceived to be greater than they are it is still a very risky activity especially when compared to traditionally 'dangerous' sports like say Rugby Union and Horse Riding. Similarly, whilst I've been a motorcylist for most of my adult life I refused to allow my daughter to get a scooter at 17. Hypocritical? Possibly.

I would consider horse riding or rugby to be more dangerous than cycling. I had my 8 year old on the road today cycling in the suburbs of Bristol. The nearest danger was the bloke who shouted at me as we crossed one of the main roads into Bristol using a zebra crossing - walking our bikes. Reason for shouting - cos I had to walk out onto the crossing to get the cars to stop in the first place before I let my son cross. I let my eldest daughter cycle to her friends house over a mile away on her own.

 

[hackbike 666]

Rare I do it but it does happen sometimes.

 

[swee'pea99]

If one of my loved ones decided they wanted to take up cycling on the road I would have a serious chat and try to insist they take training. Whilst the risks are perceived to be greater than they are it is still a very risky activity especially when compared to traditionally 'dangerous' sports like say Rugby Union and Horse Riding. Similarly, whilst I've been a motorcylist for most of my adult life I refused to allow my daughter to get a scooter at 17. Hypocritical? Possibly.

I've positively encouraged all my loved ones to get into cycling on the road, and I've 'trained' them all myself, by riding with them, giving them basic tips, and constructive criticism when they get it wrong. I do think you're overestimating the risk in calling it 'a very risky activity' - without wishing to tempt fate, I don't think it is, or at least, I don't think it needs to be, if it's done sensibly.

As for the comparison with motorcycling, seems to me that's a bit like comparing hill walking with solo rock climbing. Motorcycling is simply in a different category of risk - particularly for the young, and particularly for young men. Testosterone-charged youves in charge of something that can do 0-60 in 3.4 seconds - now that *is* risky. But there's no comparison with cycling, crap drivers or no.

 

[the reluctant cyclist]

Is it just me or does anybody else notice that inveriably when a motorist passes you really really close you can see that they are looking in their rear view mirror to see if they have got past you okay?

I wonder if they actually realise that they were a bit close? Maybe they really are checking to see that they haven't knocked you off?

Of course I may be wrong - when I am driving I hope that I am giving a cyclist enough room as I overtake them but I don't really know do I because I've not had any feedback from the cyclist? I know how far I want a car away from me when it overtakes me on the bike but they probably think that 18 inches that they usually give me is enough - I would say that 18 inches to 2 feet is the average on a busy inner city road too. It is very very rare that somebody passes me nice and wide..

... although again - after 8 years of this malarky (should change my user name really!) I have noticed that I always get loads of room and loads of consideration from motorists ONLY if it won't slow down their own journey - for instance single carriage road, me on bike, driver in car, nothing coming towards me - driver passes nice and wide and on his way - change this to the exact same scenario but add a car coming towards us - the driver will always pass really close to me so that he/she doesn't have to slow down and lose a few seconds on their journey.

Again, just one of my own unresearched observations!

 

[hackbike 666]

Had a go at a driver at Bow this morning.I could see what was going to happen so I sort of shouted "don't do it twat".He pulled out on me to save two seconds.
While at work I was thinking about the incident and I was thinking benefit of the doubt for the motorist as he possibly had trouble judging my speed.I had a Cree and also a flashing but the battery was dying a bit on the flashing.I was using the spare bike and will modify the front lighting asap.It's very rare that this happens on my normal commuting bike.

 

[HLaB]

I don't know if we have to accept cr@p driving, if we just accept thing nothing changes but we have to be aware it exists. I could have easily been killed this morning if I hadn't been aware. The whole of Edinburgh seems like roadworks at the moment. At the top of Dundas St, its down to 1 lane from 3. A HGV overtook me to join the back of the queue nowt wrong with that but almost immediately decides he wants to cut into the closed lane despite it being closed only 2 car lengths in front. One turn of the Crank and I'd been there :-0

 

[Hornchurch]

I don't know if we have to accept cr@p driving, if we just accept thing nothing changes but we have to be aware it exists.

Had a go at a driver at Bow this morning.I could see what was going to happen so I sort of shouted "don't do it twat".

I could have easily been killed this morning if I hadn't been aware.

Makes ME burn with anger, when I read about the likes of THIS 'sack of scum', below - Read on....

Woman loses leg after being hit by driver who had 28 drinks at bottomless brunch​

Kate Buck
·Breaking News Editor, Yahoo News UK
Tue, 14 June 2022

A drink-driver whose collision caused her leg to be amputated had downed 28 drinks at a bottomless brunch before driving again.

Michael Marsden, 23, struck Angel Taylor, 22, in his blue BMW on 5 June last year as she walked home from a pub in Farnham, Surrey.

The impact of the collision 'took her leg off' below the knee, leaving her needing an eight-hour operation.

She also suffered a bleed on her brain, broken ribs and a shattered pelvis

Detectives identified Marsden's car as being involved.

When they recovered it the next day, found it had a cracked front bumper and was missing a wing mirror.

Marsden was arrested and toxicology revealed he was over the drink driving limit. Marsden had attended a "bottomless brunch" event in Guildford, where he drank 11 cocktails before driving to more pubs in Aldershot, where he drank 15 shots and two pints.

An examination of his phone showed he had been looking at police appeals following the collision.

Marsden, of Laburnham Road, Aldershot, has now been jailed for three years after pleading guilty to dangerous driving, driving whilst alcohol level over the limit, failure to stop and failure to report when he appeared before the crown court. He was also banned from driving for 54 months.

DC Rick Edwards of Surrey Police, said “Throughout this whole entire investigation, Marsden has shown no remorse for what he has done and has even been witnessed mocking the collision amongst his friends".


If I was 'in charge', I woulda had the c--t "disembowled alive" - (then, pass the baseball-bat around, for good-measure !)

Then we'd see (after), just how "keen" he was, to 'mock the victim'

Angers me that scum like this is even allowed to live, never mind carry-on - Prob' out within 18-months (& still 'no remorse')

.

 

[boydj]

You realise this thread is from almost 13 years ago and a lot of the contributors you quote may wellbe no longer around?

 

[Hornchurch]

You realise this thread is from almost 13 years ago and a lot of the contributors you quote may wellbe no longer around?

Yeah, sure, by all means.

Subject matter doth not change tho', plus, in MY experience (42+ years driving now), it just seems to get WORSE (driving standards)

Too many 'self entitled' FAST drivers, who kill & maim - I don't fancy cycling on main-roads & ending-up like a skittle !

I have a large supermarket about 3-4 miles away, cycling distance.

Yet, of the THREE roads/routes open to me, TWO are with 60mph H.G.V's (ok 56mph), other is a narrow lane, blind bends etc.

Modern day 'lunacy' driving (& there's lots of it), forces me to ONLY use my 5 x cycles for "excercise only" (not what I want !)

At the junction (end of our road/lane.... Waiting to pull-out (last month)

Line of SIX cars, all doing the allowed '60mph limit'

Had I pulled-out, before they arrived, both myself AND my passengers (Micra), would've been killed.

Some 'self-entitled' twat (in a Black audi A.3), was doing between 95-100mph (easily), overtaking "the oncoming stream of six"

He's on the main 'A' road, doing 95-100mph APPROACHING A JUNCTION whilst overtaking SIX cars, doing 60mph**

** Oh yeah - AND he's on the wrong side of the road, doing 100mph AS he passes aforesaid junction (me, waiting, turning right)

Tunnel of trees, "blind approach" (but dead straight) - But overtaking at a junction, at 100mph = ridiculous, frightening, 100% dangerous.

I'm a confident Lorry-driver/car-driver/motorcyclist AND cyclist - (don't delete, ALL applicable)

Yet that incident actually scared me (!), something that does NOT happen easily.

My passenger yelled "Look at THAT idiot" (wrong side of road, A.148), "He must be doing at least 100mph" (which he was)

Going past the 'line of six' (them, doing 60mph), like they were going backwards & 'him' like a scalded-cat, on nitrous-oxide !

Personally, I never had that 'fear' back in the 1960's & 1970's (when I started riding cycles), that I do, now - (sadly)

Like I say - Forum congregation comes & goes (like ebb/flow of tide) - Cyclists problems, DO NOT.

The (in my view), ridiculously "light sentence" that Wayne Kerr got, for destroying that gal's body, is NOT a deterrent !

He's "out" in 18-months time, yet, she's crippled & maimed for the rest of her life, never mind her busted pelvis AND mental-scars.

(hence my post - didn't wanna start a new thread, so, tacked it to this one, as, THREAD subject-matter IS sadly, still relevant)

.

 

[harlechjoe]

An earlier reply is great advice. Simply smile and perhaps add a friendly wave at them. For me it takes the heat out of the situation. I don't care what the driver thinks, especially when my video footage is shared with the police.