Cyclist Wanted (threads merged)

[derrick]

The clip shows two idiots.

 

[mickle]

Think about it. Can you honestly say violence (in any situation) is not the answer?

Im agreeing with you. Nobber.

 

[glenn forger]

 

[CopperCyclist]

It wasn't self defense, he got out of his car to assault someone wh, although annoying, didn't attempt to physically harm him. Slf defense only works as a defense if you're being physically threatened.

It works to defend your property too, or any other person. Do I think punching someone in the face to stop them punching a car window is going too far - yes, probably, he could have pushed him away first. Do I think it was extreme enough to persuade CPS to prosecute? Based on the single punch followed by relatively calm body language, nope.

There's no 'right' here, just two wrongs.

 

[MarkF]

Christ, I learned the 'Sticks and stones' rhyme when I was in nursery. Hearing you lot justify the physical attack on that man makes me sick. As if the aggressive and dangerous behaviour of the driver is somehow mitigated because the cyclist shouted at him. Irrational? Entirely justified more like.

You quoted me, but I have not and would not justify the assault by the passenger. But nor would I justify the way over-the-top reaction by the cyclist to what was a trivial incident, what I said what that the outcome was unsurprising.

 

[MarkF]

No he wasn't stabbed - I said IF he had been stabbed. I believe a situation arose with someone called Noye once, where a punch contained a knife? I think you were condoning the assault, and if there's nothing macho about your world perhaps you ought to think about changing your avatar.

I am glad the cyclist didn't have a knife, he's crackers.

 

[asterix]

Apparently the cyclist is annoyed because the driver ran over his foot.

That is what he is telling the driver in the 2nd incident. I think having a car driven over your foot would be somewhat annoying!

In essence we have a car being driven aggressively causing possible injury to a cyclist. When the cyclist complains, albeit rather loudly, the cyclist is punched to the ground by an occupant of the car.

In my understanding ASLs are for the use of cyclists. To increase their safety. Clearly the Audi driver took exception to the cyclist using it in the way it is intended and lost his/her rag. I'd suggest that a driver who has that degree of control over a dangerous machine* is unfit to hold a licence and the passenger has clearly assaulted the cyclist who was complaining about having his foot run over.

* Audis do appear to be particularly dangerous machines!

 

[MarkF]

That is what he is telling the driver in the 2nd incident. I think having a car driven over your foot would be somewhat annoying!

In essence we have a car being driven aggressively causing possible injury to a cyclist. When the cyclist complains, albeit rather loudly, the cyclist is punched to the ground by an occupant of the car.

In my understanding ASLs are for the use of cyclists. To increase their safety. Clearly the Audi driver took exception to the cyclist using it in the way it is intended and lost his/her rag. I'd suggest that a driver who has that degree of control over a dangerous machine* is unfit to hold a licence and the passenger has clearly assaulted the cyclist who was complaining about having his foot run over.

* Audis do appear to be particularly dangerous machines!

The car driver is the initial transgressor, of that there is no doubt. I don't think there is anything wrong with the cyclist letting him know that.

However, I don't believe the car ran over his foot. But if it had, it would have been due to the cyclist making a series of manoeuvres to get as close to the car as possible, too close. not due to a driver error once stopped. I believe he has taken umbrage at being dissed/ignored and gone into meltdown. He's not talking to the driver next time they meet, he's going beserk, ranting aggressively. At that point IMO he's got to accept the possibility of his aggression being returned in kind, sadly for him, that is what did happen.

ASL's, I don't see anything wrong with what any of the cyclists did, but am happy to be made aware of my ignorance. I'll often stay slap bang in primary until I am through a junction, tight ones with railings on the opposite side, to make sure that I am first through. Ok, at the junction in the vid I wouldn't see that need, but still, they are for cyclists aren't they?

http://content.met.police.uk/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Type&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=application/pdf&blobheadervalue2=inline; filename="830/791/ASL.PDF"&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1283630987941&ssbinary=true

 

[Peter Armstrong]

When im driving and stop at the lights people look at me weird because I stop BEFORE the ASL. WTF?

 

[Frood42]

[QUOTE 2888948, member: 9609"]The cyclist was being very threatening, may be in that part of London it is impracticable and very dangerous to try and get away from a bike, the cyclist had already demonstrated how mad and determined he was, and sometimes the best form of defence is attack. May be it was the blokes wife the cyclist was threatening, if it was then he didn't do anything I wouldn't of.[/quote]

The Audi driver was also being very threatning by driving into the ASL with his big powerful car.
It's just plain ignorance and impatience shown on the part of the driver, and it is the driver who has caused the escalation.

ASL's are supposed to be there to make it safer for those less comfortable with traffic riding.
Not everyone wants to sit in a traffic queue in primary, and being hid away in a snaking line to the left of traffic is not always the best idea.
.

 

[MarkF]

How does vid evidence hold up? There is no ambiguity in what it shows, a good result would be for the driver to collect his/her £100 fine and 3 points.

Met Police:- The Cycle Task Force and our colleagues across the MPS regularly report and warn drivers for contravening this law and are supporting Transport for London’s ASL campaign. Any Police Constable (not a Police Community Support Officer) who witnesses an ASL offence taking place can enforce and must provide evidence that they witnessed:

• The front of the vehicle cross the stop line
• The moment the traffic lights changed
• The traffic lights were all working

 

[Frood42]

How does vid evidence hold up? There is no ambiguity in what it shows, a good result would be for the driver to collect his/her £100 fine and 3 points.

Met Police:- The Cycle Task Force and our colleagues across the MPS regularly report and warn drivers for contravening this law and are supporting Transport for London’s ASL campaign. Any Police Constable (not a Police Community Support Officer) who witnesses an ASL offence taking place can enforce and must provide evidence that they witnessed:

• The front of the vehicle cross the stop line
• The moment the traffic lights changed
• The traffic lights were all working

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Advanced-Stop-Lines/1400018009433/1400018009433

 

[Bollo]

So 8 pages in, have we identified the punchy passenger? Anyone bothered about that anymore?

 

[Andrew_P]

If you don't go round ranting and raving at car drivers no one will get out and deck you. simple.

Not quite, I had a Car pull straight out in front of me, woman driver steamed up windows, she looked me in the eye and pulled out then hesitated and stopped other than swerve round them as it was the safest thing to do I did zero zilch nothing no gesture no shouting nothing. 100 yards up the road with fag in hand McDonald's drink in the other window wound down I get some old chavvy 60+ bloke f'ing and worse at me 3 kids in the back who then goes on to offer me out at the pedestrian lights. I didn't react other than telling him to behave himself and stop swearing in front of young kids. I have no doubt had I accepted his offer it would ended up in fisty cuffs. Not something I particularly want to do on my way home, thanks.

My point being I was completely the innocent party, so its not always going to be the cyclist causing the problem, without any doubt everything the Audi did was deliberately done to wind up the cyclist in the ASL, how dare a Cyclist pull in front on me and stop me getting somewhere else 10 seconds quicker! Who knows what would have happened if the Cyclist pulled up in the next ASL without confrontation, my bet would be the Audi would have done the same or worse.

My only criticism is the cyclist should have kept his mouth shut, anytime I have confronted anyone about their driving skills I have done it in the full knowledge that there are nutters out there prepared to take it to another level.

I can't believe no one here has ever felt their safety so threatened that they not had rant either to themselves or to the driver. I have done it a few times not proud of it but the adrenaline of the threat is overwhelming sometimes.

 

[400bhp]

Clearly the Audi driver took exception to the cyclist using it in the way it is intended

Was it used in the way intended? Ie to move to the front at the traffic lights when there is one car waiting?