Cyclists and headphones.

[martint235]

I agree totally with most of what you say. Hiviz, helmets etc. The difference to me is these are the addition of something that may or may not help whereas headphones is the deliberate removal of something that may or may not help.

There are unfortunately a lot of things we should be able to do safely that we can't. It's difficult to argue the point from A&E though.

 

[srw]

There we go again - ludicrous? I contend that its possible to ride perfectly safely without the use of sound. None of the examples offered have convinced me otherwise. And I'll take Johnny Cash over the traffic on the A19 any day.

Yes, ludicrous. Laughable. I also find it ludicrous that someone could vote Tory or voluntarily listen to heavy metal or go to a football match or commute on a busy main road out of town. But people I respect do all of those things.

 

[User6179]

Yes, ludicrous. Laughable. I also find it ludicrous that someone could vote Tory or voluntarily listen to heavy metal or go to a football match or commute on a busy main road out of town. But people I respect do all of those things.

I sometimes commute to football matches while listening to Iron maiden and I always vote tory but I find it ludricrous that anyone would care so much whether someone wears headphones or not while cycling

 

[StuartG]

I contend that its possible to ride perfectly safely without the use of sound.

There's where we part company. I am amazed you can make that statement and also claim to be a cycle instructor (did I get that right?). In traffic it is impossible to ride perfectly safely PERIOD. That is because you are not in control of other's imperfect riding/driving. All you can do is to minimise risk through anticipation. It come through all the senses. Which is to deny the use of any potentially increases risk.

Not to mention cries from behind are useful. And when one in front ignores them because they are wearing phones it can and does create totally unnecessary difficulties. Perhaps the fact that you are unaware of this says something about you as a danger to others.

 

[ufkacbln]

I sometimes commute to football matches while listening to Iron maiden and I always vote tory but I find it ludricrous that anyone would care so much whether someone wears headphones or not while cycling

My Ipod does not recognise Iron Maiden, when you ask for the band it calls them "Eeeron Myden"

 

[ufkacbln]

There's where we part company. I am amazed you can make that statement and also claim to be a cycle instructor (did I get that right?). In traffic it is impossible to ride perfectly safely PERIOD. That is because you are not in control of other's imperfect riding/driving. All you can do is to minimise risk through anticipation. It come through all the senses. Which is to deny the use of any potentially increases risk.

Not to mention cries from behind are useful. And when one in front ignores them because they are wearing phones it can and does create totally unnecessary difficulties.

Let's ask a simple question....

It has been shown that by closing their windows car drivers induce a similar loss of audible data. Are you saying that we should not allow drivers to close their windows ?

Perhaps the fact that you are unaware of this says something about you as a danger to others.

...or more about your attitude to the many riders with hearing difficulties?

 

[mickle]

There's where we part company. I am amazed you can make that statement and also claim to be a cycle instructor (did I get that right?). In traffic it is impossible to ride perfectly safely PERIOD. That is because you are not in control of other's imperfect riding/driving. All you can do is to minimise risk through anticipation. It come through all the senses. Which is to deny the use of any potentially increases risk.

Not to mention cries from behind are useful. And when one in front ignores them because they are wearing phones it can and does create totally unnecessary difficulties. Perhaps the fact that you are unaware of this says something about you as a danger to others.

'Cries from behind'? Are you for real?

 

[StuartG]

It has been shown that by closing their windows car drivers induce a similar loss of audible data. Are you saying that we should not allow drivers to close their windows ?

...or more about your attitude to the many riders with hearing difficulties?

Q1. Of course not. I presume you drive a car, ride a bike and maybe also ride a motorbike. Do you not, like me, have a very different appreciation of the road around one depending on the mode?

In a car you have a stable platform plus three large mirrors which, in well set up vehicles, gives you 360 degree vision without moving the head. Your peripheral vision will spot unexpected events and elevate them to the concious unless you are dozing or distracted (and yes too many are). You are much less concerned about the road surface and the urgent need to change direction. Sound cues have less to offer.

On a motorbike although less stable you still have good rear vision although the consequences of missing something are much greater that you need the lifesaver glance. Sound cues are missed because of the helmet and engine sound.

Bicycles give you no rear vision (I've tried bicycle mirrors but they offer very little and at a cost that IMHO cancels it out). One relies completely on rear glances and sound. Whilst those glances will provide the most accurate information they can never be as frequent and long lasting as one would wish. The peripheral vision warning is absent. Hence sound so often gives the cue that there is something there that needs to be checked out. In stress situations where looking ahead is essential sound may be the only informing sense of the situation behind. That can influence you decision on braking, swing to the left or the right.

Q2 What precisely are you insinuating about my attitude to "riders with hearing difficulties"?
I think I had stated that openly and fully explained that in an earlier post. It is after all the reason I'm posting to this thread. What is your problem with that and how is it connected with Q1?

Puzzled ...

 

[Berties]

with wind rush i have enough trouble hearing, even though i like my music and on a 4 hour ride have been tempted i have held off,with the colder weather i am covering my ears and have found this a drain on my hearing,i would rather be able to use all my senses to the best they can,so no ear phones for me

 

[green1]

In a car you have a stable platform plus three large mirrors which, in well set up vehicles, gives you 360 degree vision without moving the head. Your peripheral vision will spot unexpected events and elevate them to the concious unless you are dozing or distracted (and yes too many are). You are much less concerned about the road surface and the urgent need to change direction. Sound cues have less to offer.

They don't though mirrors have blind spots and do not give you a 360 view. Try pulling out without looking over your shoulder on your driving test, instant failure.

 

[StuartG]

They don't though mirrors have blind spots and do not give you a 360 view. Try pulling out without looking over your shoulder on your driving test, instant failure.

"Well set up vehicles ..." I have 5 mirrors. You can sit and look through each one in turn. There is overlap everywhere. And yes you should still glance behind before changing lane/pulling out as an extra precaution. It is called 'belt and bracers'. That's the whole point of this discussion on using sound cues on a bike if you can. You are unwise to unnecesarily rely on one major sensory input.

The problem with this thread is that many hearing people significantly under appreciate the input you get from 'peripheral' hearing as it is so often monitored by the subconcious. The reason why we suddenly look round and see something (aka the sixth sense) is often because of those unconcious sound cues.

 

[mickle]

There's where we part company. I am amazed you can make that statement and also claim to be a cycle instructor (did I get that right?). In traffic it is impossible to ride perfectly safely PERIOD. That is because you are not in control of other's imperfect riding/driving. All you can do is to minimise risk through anticipation. It come through all the senses. Which is to deny the use of any potentially increases risk.

Not to mention cries from behind are useful. And when one in front ignores them because they are wearing phones it can and does create totally unnecessary difficulties. Perhaps the fact that you are unaware of this says something about you as a danger to others.

I'm a qualified cycle trainer.
You're another of those sorts who cant have a decent argument without resorting to the underhand and personal - in this case an unsubsatintiated slur on my roadworthiness.
No one ever 'cries from behind' on my commute. And when I overtake someone I'm responsible for establishing if it's safe to do so.

 

[StuartG]

No one ever 'cries from behind' on my commute.

Well you wouldn't know, would you?

"On your right", "Coming through" are just good etiquette if you feel the rider in front is not aware and could do something stupid. And being more inclined to stop at traffic lights than some - if I hear the swishing of a bike behind me I instinctively shout 'stopping'. As a qualified cycle trainer with implied decent standards of roadworthiness - don't you do the same? If not might you consider doing it? Or do you think audible warnings are a waste of time? (Struggling to remember what CycleCraft has to say on this).

I have seen too many crashes where an audible warning may have saved the day. As an experienced rider I'm really surprised that has not happened to you.

 

[User6179]

I'm a qualified cycle trainer.
You're another of those sorts who cant have a decent argument without resorting to the underhand and personal - in this case an unsubsatintiated slur on my roadworthiness.
No one ever 'cries from behind' on my commute. And when I overtake someone I'm responsible for establishing if it's safe to do so.

I always listen to music on solo rides and never had a problem but to be fair to stuart i think he is talking about slow moving cyclist wearing headphones maybe on narrow cycle paths and would agree that this could be unsafe as I have encountered theses cyclist weaving about hogging the whole path and oblivious to me behind shouting excuse me ( btw never shout comming through on left or right just shout "keep your position" as a lot of cyclist dont know left from right, i found this out after a lady went right after I told her "comming through on the right")

 

[ufkacbln]

'Cries from behind'? Are you for real?

GET OUT OF MY F********* WAY