Cyclists down a30

[ColinJ]

For me, the practical outcome of these near-misses is that I cycle with a flashing front light on during the day, and a bright flashing rear blinky on the rear as well if there is a low sun.

Bromptonfb came on one of my forum rides with a very bright flashing rear light. It had a very distinctive 'burst-mode' flashing pattern which really caught one's attention. The light was bright enough to see from a mile away in bright sunlight! (He missed a turn and ended up a mile away, almost too far for me to make him out, but I could see his light flashing away.)

It was great in daylight but would need turning down at night or it would have dazzled anybody behind him.

 

[Fubar]

Totally tragic. For the past 7 years we have towed a caravan down to Cornwall and there are many long upward drags that slow HGV's down followed by steep downward slopes which advise towing vehicles to change gear and reduce speed - even towing a little caravan takes quite a bit of concentration. And in all that mix you have lorries, caravans, motorhomes (now mostly towing small cars), foreigners, cyclists, motorbikes, tractors pulling out of side-lanes, and slow moving/fast moving cars - whatever the causes/circumstances here I think I would personally avoid cycling on this road, as I would on much of the A9 for the same reason.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

typical of this warped car is king country...ban the bloody lorries !!!!!

...oh sorry I got shot in the head by some gun pointing lunatic...lets just ban the innocent bystander victim and put the dipstick who shot him up on a pedestal for hero worship....argggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

Well without the demand from cars and lorries we would not have the road network that we do today.

Incidentally, are Bianchi's delivered by teleporter or something?

***

The incident that has started this thread is indeed sad and I can't comment on the particulars of the accident as I was fortunately not there.

What does amaze me though is the risk that some people take when out cycling. Two things come to mind.

The first being that some roads are so obviously high risk that I question the judgement of the cyclists that I see on them. We all judge risk differently but on some of the local trunk roads up here there is no wide corridor on the LH side of the road to cycle in. I quite often see cyclists on these roads mixing it with fast traffic including lorries who create a huge draft as they go by. I'm not saying that all roads should not be made safe for cyclists but truth is they aren't so maybe they ought to be avoided.

Last year on the long North-bound drag up the bypass that overlooks Kendal I came upon 3 cyclists in freezing cold conditions cycling in torrential rain and who were virtually invisible until I was upon them - all had bright lights fitted and on but they made virtually no difference at all to their visibilty. For sure it was my responsibility to go slow enough to spot them (I was) but for christ *leeding sake if that was me I would have got off the bike and taken my chances walking across the adjacent farmers fields. It really was that stupid to be out on that road at that time.

Secondly when some authority does make a sensible decision by providing a cycle lane that obviously avoids problematic areas then why do some cyclists not use them? I know it's not compulsory and maybe it should be but they are there to provide a relatively safe route to cyclists. In fairness many cyclists do use them although the head down chain gang fraternity seem to avoid them like the plague - presumably a Strava brag is worth more than the higher risk of losing a life.

I think it's always easy to blame car, van & lorry drivers for everything dire that happens on the roads but sometimes people have to take some responsibility for their own actions even if, in an ideal world, we should all be able to cycle on any road in the country in reasonable safety.

 

[Mo1959]

whatever the causes/circumstances here I think I would personally avoid cycling on this road, as I would on much of the A9 for the same reason.

Totally agree. My total experience of being on the A9 was for a few seconds to cross over it, ie. Greenloaning to Sheriffmuir, and Gask to Dunning. It terrifies me. I check it's clear both ways for hundreds of yards and scoot across as quick as I can. I can't even begin to imagine actually cycling on the carriageway.

 

[Glow worm]

Secondly when some authority does make a sensible decision by providing a cycle lane that obviously avoids problematic areas then why do some cyclists not use them? I know it's not compulsory and maybe it should be but they are there to provide a relatively safe route to cyclists.

Because they are normally crap and end abruptly, meaning you have to stop and give way to traffic before rejoining the road anyway. You also have to give way at every side street/ lane, house's drive or farm track, so making real progress is difficult and frustrating to say the least. They are also normally covered in glass and other crap, over-grown and poorly surfaced.

You simpy can't try to shift the blame for these things onto cyclists, just because some drivers can't be arsed to drive properly .

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Because they are normally crap and end abruptly, meaning you have to stop and give way to traffic before rejoining the road anyway. You also have to give way at every side street/ lane, house's drive or farm track, so making real progress is difficult and frustrating to say the least. They are also normally covered in glass and other crap, over-grown and poorly surfaced.

You simpy can't try to shift the blame for these things onto cyclists, just because some drivers can't be arsed to drive properly .

Well, not all cycle lanes/paths are crap. We have some very good paths here and I have noted quite a few on our various holiday destinations throughout the UK. We do have a few paths that have fallen into some disrepair but they are still rideable.

We clearly cycle on different paths you and I as I don't often have to do much stopping for driveways and farm tracks just a bit of slowing down. I also don't see stopping to rejoin the road when a path ends as too much of a hardship. Here the difference is that there are cyclists who are happy to cycle on safer roads at slightly slower speeds but with little risk and those who are desperate to maintain cadence at all costs. These cyclists do exist!

I'm not trying to shift all blame to cyclists I'm just saying that eg if a cyclist is hell bent on joining a fast and heavily populated by-pass then they are exposing themselves to needless risk.

I also think that whilst there is a duty of all drivers to be aware of other road users there is a reciprocal duty for cyclists not to be wilful minded and cycle where good sense tells them they ought not to. Witness 3 riders on the last Bank Holiday at Ings just outside Kendal. Decent cycle lane adjacent (I was riding it) but no, they had to be on the road didn't they. Whopping great frustrated queue behind them with drivers attempting to pass them. Not a great advert for cycling imo even though they have a right to be on said road. Definitely daft to increase risk when there was an alternative so close.

Sometimes just because you (legally) can doesn't mean you should.

I do think it is worth bearing in mind that many roads, particularly by-passes and trunk roads were never built for cyclists in the first place. They were constructed to shift large volumes of motorised traffic between and around towns and cities and across the country.They are not a natural home for cyclists and maybe if the powers that be imposed a minimum and sensible speed limit for all traffic using these roads then maybe less cyclists would get killed simply because they are not allowed on these roads. Much like motorways really for which I am not aware of a large-scale campaign petitioning for the right for cyclists to use them.

 

[Jefferson Meriwether]

One of my planned cycle rides for this year was from my home to Penzance. My route was going to be the coast road to Exeter then the A30 from Exeter to Penzance. Having seen the news reports on this tragic accident I'm seriously thinking the A30 is a poor choice of route. I know that if I did go ahead with that particular bike ride my parents would be worried sick about me & my safety; I don't think I could put them through that.

I have sympathy for all involved in this incident.

 

[Ticktockmy]

We have in this thread, a subject, which has been discussed many times on many forums and as here is triggered by a tragic death. I read the pro's and con's,and for myself feel that as any other road user we have a responsibility for our own health and safety. As a cyclist I know that when I cycle on a major A road or indeed a minor road I know I have to consider the speed and volume of motorised traffic will present a major hazard to me.

As a ex HGV driver I understood that vulnerable traffic, cyclists, equestrian and pedestrians are likewise a major hazard for me, importantly both are unpredictable road users, no more so than motorised vehicles, but if I hit a car I was in most cases going to inflict less damage than if I hit a cyclist or equestrian or pedestrian. As we all know as a road user's we need to think and think before we make any positional move. As motorised vehicles users we often find ourselves in positions where we need to pass a cyclists, equestrian and pedestrian only to find that we are unable to move over to the right to pass safely because the other lane has traffic in it. Whilst in most cases its not a problem and you can pass safely. However now and again something happens which is beyond the control of all users, crosswinds, potholes, drain covers, cats eyes and various detritus which can have a effect on the actions of vulnerable road users.

All to often in these discussions, the anti-motorist road users jump on their soap boxes to lambaste the motorist and the anti- cyclist act likewise, both groups pointing out and blaming their pet hates, when all of us should be learning from each and every event to make the use of the roads that much safer, it is all to easy to point the finger of blame before knowing the full facts, and listening to hearsay

 

[Fubar]

One of my planned cycle rides for this year was from my home to Penzance. My route was going to be the coast road to Exeter then the A30 from Exeter to Penzance. Having seen the news reports on this tragic accident I'm seriously thinking the A30 is a poor choice of route. I know that if I did go ahead with that particular bike ride my parents would be worried sick about me & my safety; I don't think I could put them through that.

I have sympathy for all involved in this incident.

I doubt it would be very enjoyable either - pick a scenic (if longer) route and just enjoy riding your bike.

 

[briantrumpet]

One of my planned cycle rides for this year was from my home to Penzance. My route was going to be the coast road to Exeter then the A30 from Exeter to Penzance. Having seen the news reports on this tragic accident I'm seriously thinking the A30 is a poor choice of route. I know that if I did go ahead with that particular bike ride my parents would be worried sick about me & my safety; I don't think I could put them through that.

Absolutely no need to go via the A30, which is why I find it baffling why so many LEJOGers do. There are so many delightful roads to choose from. Exeter to Penzance is quite easy for reasonably direct alternatives, including the old A30 which runs virtually parallel for many miles, and is almost deserted. I this route last year (other than the bit from St Ives to Penzance) and it was absolutely lovely. http://ridewithgps.com/routes/2807447

 

[400bhp]

Absolutely no need to go via the A30, which is why I find it baffling why so many LEJOGers do. There are so many delightful roads to choose from. Exeter to Penzance is quite easy for reasonably direct alternatives, including the old A30 which runs virtually parallel for many miles, and is almost deserted. I this route last year (other than the bit from St Ives to Penzance) and it was absolutely lovely. http://ridewithgps.com/routes/2807447

I think it's because many cyclists think like car drivers when planning routes.

 

[400bhp]

We clearly cycle on different paths you and I as I don't often have to do much stopping for driveways and farm tracks just a bit of slowing down. I also don't see stopping to rejoin the road when a path ends as too much of a hardship. Here the difference is that there are cyclists who are happy to cycle on safer roads at slightly slower speeds but with little risk and those who are desperate to maintain cadence at all costs. These cyclists do exist!

I'm not trying to shift all blame to cyclists I'm just saying that eg if a cyclist is hell bent on joining a fast and heavily populated by-pass then they are exposing themselves to needless risk.

I think you're using the extremes to illustrate your point.

I think what you are getting at is equating risk versus reward, in this case "reward" being able to cycle faster. I choose to use the road because I want to cycle faster (simplistic-it's more complicated than this). However, I don't choose to use such roads like the A30 as the risk (for me) far outweighs the reward (perhaps I can get to my destination a little quicker)

The key point is accepting the risk.

Large dose of Caveat....actually, my experience of many cycle lanes is that they can often be (feel?) more dangerous, because they have to cross side roads (within the side road and not in front of it like they do in, say France).

 

[snorri]

I doubt it would be very enjoyable either - pick a scenic (if longer) route and just enjoy riding your bike.

It's difficult for some of us (me) to understand but the "enjoyment" for many seems to come from having covered the distance in less time than the the next person.

 

[ColinJ]

It's difficult for some of us (me) to understand but the "enjoyment" for many seems to come from having covered the distance in less time than the the next person.

Given that the LEJOG records have been well under 2 days for many years now, most of us are never going to get close to the times of 'the next person'!

If you can't break a record, then all you can do is set yourself a target, say 100 miles a day, and go for that. There is nothing to stop you doing those 100 miles on nice quiet roads rather than misnamed motorways!

I would prefer the element of choice to be taken away from us on these roads, subject to viable alternative routes being available, where 'viable' is defined in a way that is acceptable to most cyclists. If alternative routes are not available, then provide safe, high quality, segregated cycle lanes that are well-designed and maintained (including being swept clear of debris, and gritted in the winter). If there is not enough room to do that in places, then set low enough speed limits to make those sections of road safe and put speed cameras all along them, and ban drivers immediately for breaking those limits.

I am not blaming the 2 cyclists for choosing that route, and I have no idea what caused the driver to hit them. All that can be said is that these tragedies keep happening, traffic volumes are going to increase, so something needs to be done.

 

[Globalti]

What though Colin?

The attitude of the authorities in the UK is that cyclist deaths are another of the inevitable consequences of having one of the densest road network and traffic numbers in the world. Yet we can still congratulate ourselves on having one of the lowest accident rates in the world, possibly the lowest in terms of accidents per mile driven. Any futher reduction in what is already a relatively low rate would require an exponential effort, something as unthinkable as building an entire new road network for cyclists only, for example.