Cyclists 'less human' when wearing a helmet.

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vickster

Legendary Member
It possibly explains something that I've often wondered about, I read on social media and hear from friends how badly cyclists often get treated yet I rarely see any of that, but I've never worn a helmet, OK it won't be the whole story but maybe its part of it.

Trying being a larger woman on a bike sometimes, some of the BS from males directed at a total stranger is unbelievable (whether wearing a helmet or not)
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Frankly I get less aggro from motorists on my bike than I do when I'm driving. Looking like a large, muscular, axe murderer seems to make people think twice.

The only adverse incident in recent times was a bit of sexism directed at me by a woman who felt it necessary to pass comment about my firm buttocks clad in lycra as she drive past in her convertible. It didn't bother me but could you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if the roles were reversed? I am a human being with thoughts and feelings you know, not a piece of meat.
 
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It possibly explains something that I've often wondered about, I read on social media and hear from friends how badly cyclists often get treated yet I rarely see any of that, but I've never worn a helmet, OK it won't be the whole story but maybe its part of it.

<being more serious now ... >
I do firmly believe there is a "helmet" affect. Mainly because of numerous studies around it. But i think it's quite small compared to all the other factors - congestion, weather, time-of-day, road-type and DRIVER PERSONALITY. And riding techniques [road position etc ]

I'm always banging on about CTT bringing in a helmet rule recently, but the psychology is interesting. At the commitee meeting I attended, the most respected member present argued that "motorists hate us enough as it is; racing without helmets just makes it worse."
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
Given most driver's attitudes, I'm not looking forward to the 20 mph limits, then cyclists really will be 'mixing it' with cars - they won't be passing you at 10-20 mph more.

We've got a few round here, I quite like them.
 

a.twiddler

Veteran
Yet the original survey is from a place where helmet wearing is compulsory, based on a self selected group who mostly ride bikes, and even they have views that regard people wearing "safety gear" as less human.

It does seem to me that that there is a continuum from casually dressed riders riding obviously non sporty bikes to helmeted riders with all the
gear on minimalist machines. The probability of getting abuse seems to depend more on the state of mind of the car driver than what you're wearing or riding, but the more you look like an alien, rather than someone's grandma, the more likely you might be to suffer abuse.

A few years ago I was going across a roundabout and must have held up a driver for .0001 of a second before I had to stop at some lights. That driver was turning off on to a dual carriageway but he thought it was necessary to stop on the dual carriageway, open his door and stand by his car to bellow abuse at me across a grassy divide. He ranted about effing cyclists and what he would do to them. I was willing the light to change before he decided to come across and follow it up. It was the beeping of traffic behind him that made him get back into his pimped up penismobile and drive off with an angry screech of tyres. Probably proves nothing, but I was wearing a helmet and was riding a drop handlebar bike at the time. There were a few minor annoyances over the years, but since I've not been wearing a helmet and using casual clothes nothing similar has occurred.

The biggest change has been in the last three years since I took up recumbents. Someone once tooted at me on a roundabout, but that's been about it. Perhaps it's just not seen as a bike. I still tend not to wear a helmet, and wear casual clothes.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Trying being a larger woman on a bike sometimes, some of the BS from males directed at a total stranger is unbelievable (whether wearing a helmet or not)
That boils my wee wee on several levels. Being the big scary daddy bear of four daughters makes me disapprove greatly of casual sexism in the street.

And so what if someone is a large person? They're out there doing it and I would never do anything to discourage exercise and environmentally sound transport decision. All power to them I say.

I know its a bit frowned upon to say so these days but some eejuts really need a good birching.
 

presta

Guru
I remember a few years back before i got back on the bike, I was driving to Stafford. I saw a cyclist and i realised id by on his tail on a blind corner, so i held back and maintained his pace and overtook when the coast was clear after the corner. Cars behind were furious with my decision, pipping and flashing their headlights, confirming to me they would at least pass part of their MOT, but the cyclist put his thumb up and waved. How bad have things gotten that a cyclist thanks me for doing what i thought was normal and what i have always done. It's the wild west out there on a bike at times...
That reminds me of an occasion when a girl in a small hatchback pulled in behind me whilst an oncoming car passed. Surmising, the car behind her must have thought "WTF is she slowing down for" then pulled out to overtake, and the first I knew of it was when the two cars screeched to a halt nose to nose right beside me, and I disappeared in a cloud of rubbery smoke.
It's all part of a much wider impact of social attitudes to the car. Walkers wider study on "car brain" or as the study calls it motonormativity.
Walker believes the car is rewiring the brain to accept the risks around its use.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Motornomativity,_How_Social_Norms_Hide_a_Major_Public_Health_Hazard.pdf
I'm less impressed by that.

The study seeks to compare the same decisions in two different forms: one car related and the other not, and their conclusion rests on the equivalence of the two forms of the questions: "we devised five simple questions about motoring and then changed one or two key words in each so that we had a parallel set of questions where the underlying principle was identical, but now referred to a non-motoring context", but looking at the questions, all but one of them clearly aren't equivalent. There's a failure to appreciate that risk taking is like any other decision: it's a cost benefit analysis, people will do something if the benefits outweight the costs, and avoid it if they don't.

Taking each of the questions:

1686229600024.png

The bias in this question is that most people would think it's irrational to walk off and leave a valuable in the street and walk off if it's portable enough to carry. Clearly these two acts are not anything like equivalent, so it's hardly surprising if the answers differ widely.


1686229807538.png

There's a bias in the question here because the type of work is not specified, is it sitting in an office or something like a steeplejack? If the type of activity you're comparing drivng with is left to the subjects' imagination, you can't know what basis they're making their decisions on.


1686230313987.png

Here, it's highly likely that people place more value on mobility and independence than on smoking and drinking, in which case they'll be quite willing to countenance more risk in return for the additional benefit.


1686230549124.png

Finally, I think this question is a lot closer to being equivalent, at least the cost is related to health & safety in both cases, and the benefit is related to business profitability in each, and as a result the answers are very similar.

The authors note that "in most cases, people responded the same whether or not they were themselves drivers", which you might expect if the difference in the questions is not due to the car, as assumed.

Whilst I don't dispute that motornormativity exists, the study clearly doesn't demonstrate it in the way that's claimed.
 

Shortandcrisp

Über Member
When people see a member of an out-group being harmed, their brain scans show the same lack of empathy as is found in psychopaths:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDjWryXdVd0&t=474s




That was Ian Walker's study. It's interesting to read Jake Olivier's attempt to discredit it, and Walker's reply showing his analysis to be deliberately biased.


Worked on a pig farm during the school hols many moons ago; farmer lanced a boil on a sow, my job - I thought - was to keep the the other sows from attacking us by kicking them in the head. 🧐 My mistake, when they heard the sow’s squeals, they didn’t attack us, they attacked the squealing sow. In a poultry farm, hens will peck a lame hen to death.
It’s a natural basic animal response it seems. Deep down we’re no different, isolate and pick on the weak and vulnerable, get ahead, take the opportunity to spread our own DNA as far and wide as possible.
 

presta

Guru
Worked on a pig farm during the school hols many moons ago; farmer lanced a boil on a sow, my job - I thought - was to keep the the other sows from attacking us by kicking them in the head. 🧐 My mistake, when they heard the sow’s squeals, they didn’t attack us, they attacked the squealing sow. In a poultry farm, hens will peck a lame hen to death.
It’s a natural basic animal response it seems. Deep down we’re no different, isolate and pick on the weak and vulnerable, get ahead, take the opportunity to spread our own DNA as far and wide as possible.

Yup. The other side of the coin is that because people who don't fit in come in for such treatment there's a powerful incentive to conform, and do as everyone else does. It's a deep rooted instinct, and people are frequently unaware they're doing it, but it can lead to some quite amusing and bizarre behaviour when psychologists design experiments to reveal it. Here's a few examples:

Training people to stand up when they hear a bleeper:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8BkzvP19v4


Facing the back of a lift:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDAbdMv14Is


Patently wrong answers:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRh5qy09nNw


And finally, when it gets really dangerous. Have you ever wondered why people don't act to save themselves in an emergency? This woman is willing to die in a burning building rather than do something different to the rest of the crowd:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjP22DpYYh8
 
OP
OP
Cycleops

Cycleops

Legendary Member
Location
Accra, Ghana
Worked on a pig farm during the school hols many moons ago; farmer lanced a boil on a sow, my job - I thought - was to keep the the other sows from attacking us by kicking them in the head. 🧐 My mistake, when they heard the sow’s squeals, they didn’t attack us, they attacked the squealing sow. In a poultry farm, hens will peck a lame hen to death.
It’s a natural basic animal response it seems. Deep down we’re no different, isolate and pick on the weak and vulnerable, get ahead, take the opportunity to spread our own DNA as far and wide as possible.
Must get out my copy of Animal Farm again.
 
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