Cyclists on BBC R5live

[Spin City]

Wow. I wonder if we all went to the same school or did Adam move around a lot.

I was at Byron Court Primary School in North Wembley.

 

[mgarl10024]

I don't think it has been mentioned It is mentioned only a few posts up in this thread:

BBC Radio Wales from Tuesday. Martin Porter, Adam Rayner, Roy Spilsbury (CTC Wales).
From 1h14m50s
http://www.bbc.co.uk...eIn_11_01_2011/

Great link - thanks.

I'm wary of posting this, but it's a genuine question...
I was intrigued by the idea of the indicators. I've seen them advertised somewhere before.
They'd allow you to signal your intention, without compromising control of the bike - sounds a good plan?

 

[ferret fur]

I'm talking about secondary school.

this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haberdashers'_Aske's_Boys'_School

 

[downfader]

Great link - thanks.

I'm wary of posting this, but it's a genuine question...
I was intrigued by the idea of the indicators. I've seen them advertised somewhere before.
They'd allow you to signal your intention, without compromising control of the bike - sounds a good plan?

There are indicator options, however you have to bear in mind two things.Firstly many other road users expect a hand signal and may not take full notice of the flashing orange blob. Secondly some of the models I have seen are designed to work at night and are no where near bright enough for daylight.

There have been bicycle indicators since around the early 70s. If you were to use/create a powerful set chances are you'd need some kind of 12v battery.. You could bodge some motorbike indicators on the bike and rack, I've often thought about this, but the extra cables/battery would be a pain.

 

[ComedyPilot]

If the act of indicating compromises the handling and control of the bike, then I would say the bike is being ridden close to or actually out of control anyway?

 

[MartinC]

Taking one hand off the bars and away from a brake lever must compromise control by definition.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

Taking one hand off the bars and away from a brake lever must compromise control by definition.

Especially when the hand in question is being removed from the front brake lever.

 

[downfader]

If the act of indicating compromises the handling and control of the bike, then I would say the bike is being ridden close to or actually out of control anyway?

There have been a couple of times late last year when when I unexpectedly hit diesel or ice and felt the rear wheel slip. All whilst in the process of indicating.

I think they raised the other issue of drivers deciding to make silly overtakes when indicating left, too, and for me this is more important and more dangerous

 

[henshaw11]

>- Accountability. I do see his argument here. As cyclists, we are not required to have insurance, and so (and I don't understand the technicalities) if I'm on the road and I scratch someone's car or someone on a bike collides with me, then there should be some mechanism for dealing with this (small claims?). Many of you on here have insurance, and that's probably a good idea, but I would be concerned if some cyclist without insurance collided with me and refused to pay - I wouldn't really know how this is dealt with?


Just noticed this thread, and specifically this bit.
Hopefully someone will correct me if I've got the wrong end of the stick, but AFAIA there's nothing to stop anyone making a personal claim against the other party - I suppose it's just tied up in law to keep things relatively civilised. ISTR my mother (40/50 years ago) specifically had insurance to cover the dog in the event of her (the dog!) running into the road and causing an accident

There's the issue of identifying the other party to make a claim against them, but to a degree that's the issue even with drivers - someone may be obliged to give you their details, the only vague assurance that you'll get them is their registration plate, and even then it may come down to their word against yours, so may still be a bit academic as to whose insurnace actually foots the bill.

 

[pshore]

there's nothing to stop anyone making a personal claim against the other party

Yes, that point was made in one of the radio shows, by the CTC rep on Radio Wales, IIRC.

The insurance debate is another distraction in my opinion. Mandatory insurance for motor vehicles is there due to the high cost of damage that motor vehicles regularly cause.

In all the debates I have heard, the bigoted motorist is only interested in scratches or wing mirror damage which is never going to be that costly. Cyclists do kill one person every 2 years on average and if that was the argument then there is a debate to be had, but it will end very quickly with 'ALL or NO adults must have liability insurance'.

It looks like home ownership is around 70% and if all home insurance policies come with personal liability cover like mine do, it looks like the majority of adults have it anyway, and they can't enforce it on children.

 

[downfader]

Yes, that point was made in one of the radio shows, by the CTC rep on Radio Wales, IIRC.

The insurance debate is another distraction in my opinion. Mandatory insurance for motor vehicles is there due to the high cost of damage that motor vehicles regularly cause.

In all the debates I have heard, the bigoted motorist is only interested in scratches or wing mirror damage which is never going to be that costly. Cyclists do kill one person every 2 years on average and if that was the argument then there is a debate to be had, but it will end very quickly with 'ALL or NO adults must have liability insurance'.

It looks like home ownership is around 70% and if all home insurance policies come with personal liability cover like mine do, it looks like the majority of adults have it anyway, and they can't enforce it on children.

On the wales prog that nutter who phoned in just wouldnt accept any other point and just started ranting off at Porter. It must be terrible to be that angry, and how it must affect his life. In his mind, the risk was as great as a car travelling at much greater speeds. What an illogical lunatic.

 

[pshore]

I was thinking about what I would say if I wrote to the BBC and it was something along the lines of - letting unchallenged statements (eg all cyclists are law breakers; don't pay road tax; never signal properly; should have insurance etc) is creating animosity towards cyclists which results in unsafe driving and predudice from drivers who somehow feel justified after hearing similar thoughts on the radio.

My next thought is, how does a BBC researcher (or programme host) know which statements are clearly wrong ?

I was thinking that it would be good to point any program maker or researcher at a web page with all of the standard arguments on it. Perhaps a bit like ipayroadtax but with wider issues. It would then make it very easy for them to challenge any bad statements if the cycling advocate is unable to.

Is that a good or bad idea ? Could the users on cycle chat even come to some agreement and make a sticky or is that too hard because we have differing opinions ?

I think many issues might be contentious eg RLJ. It's plainly illegal so shouldn't do it, but some reasons why cyclists do it are ....

It sounds like a job for the CTC, but if we could get our own collective thoughts summarised it would be progress IMO.

 

[downfader]

I was thinking about what I would say if I wrote to the BBC and it was something along the lines of - letting unchallenged statements (eg all cyclists are law breakers; don't pay road tax; never signal properly; should have insurance etc) is creating animosity towards cyclists which results in unsafe driving and predudice from drivers who somehow feel justified after hearing similar thoughts on the radio.

My next thought is, how does a BBC researcher (or programme host) know which statements are clearly wrong ?

I was thinking that it would be good to point any program maker or researcher at a web page with all of the standard arguments on it. Perhaps a bit like ipayroadtax but with wider issues. It would then make it very easy for them to challenge any bad statements if the cycling advocate is unable to.

Is that a good or bad idea ? Could the users on cycle chat even come to some agreement and make a sticky or is that too hard because we have differing opinions ?

I think many issues might be contentious eg RLJ. It's plainly illegal so shouldn't do it, but some reasons why cyclists do it are ....

It sounds like a job for the CTC, but if we could get our own collective thoughts summarised it would be progress IMO.

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...tient__motorists_after_serious_road_accident/

Well the above seems to show that cyclists are fair game for abuse, even when they're down. Found that today and asked R5live if they feel they have contributed in some way to the abuse by way of incitement.

...I spent ALL last week sending corrections to the media over the articles and radio they did on this. The issue SHOULD have been about the law abiding who had been let down, it became a brush to tar us all with. Not one radio show or media resource has replied saying they will update with the facts, all except the Machester Evening News who printed an edited letter of mine "Motoring is cheap":

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/comment/postbag/2011/01/10

One result, and I hope some take a little of it onboard about "road tax".

 

[mgarl10024]

I think many issues might be contentious eg RLJ. It's plainly illegal so shouldn't do it, but some reasons why cyclists do it are ....

Without meaning to be contentious, I was surprised to read even Zoe Williams (lady on BBC Breakfast) advocates RLJ in some circumstances.

Now imagine that you're at a red light at an intersection. There is a wide green band painted on the road to indicate cyclist space, but motorists, of course, are ignoring it. The guy in the car next to you intends to turn left and you don't want to. He has given no indication of having seen you or caring for your safety in any way. In the split- second between the cross light going red and yours going green, when all pedestrians have cleared the area anyway because their light ended ages ago, you have my blessing to jump this light.

http://www.guardian....05/transport.uk

 

[ComedyPilot]

Of course, Zoe Williams is a very experienced cyclist, speaking out on a subject she feels passionately for. Or is she just doing a job, for which she's paid, on a subject that her 'employers' feel is this week's hot potato.

Cynical....moi?