Deer fence and gate on hill track.

[framediamond]

Does anyone have experience of the above, and especially getting through the pedestrian part of the gate with an unladen touring (drop handlebars) bike? The pedestrian part of the gate is separate from the main gate, and is a hinged gate but you have to "wiggle" through it. There's not a lot of free space. If you've been there I think that you will know what I mean. What was your experience? Did you get through with your bike? These fences and gates are common in Scotland and possibly elsewhere, and, including the pedestrian part six feet high. Sometimes the main gate is locked to prevent motor access but the pedestrian part always open. Thanks.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If it’s what I think you are describing then it just a case of your bike being vertical and tilt it around as you swing the gate.

 

[snorri]

I'm not sure if the Access Code demands that you should be able to cycle through an access, or if it is sufficient to have an access that can be "wiggled" through.
You would need to take measurements and photographs if you feel your Access Rights are being restricted and send in full details.
I hope these links will help....
https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/
https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/sites/default/files/2018-05/Publication 2005 - Scottish Outdoor Access Code.pdf

 

[oldwheels]

Any gates like that I have met I turn the bike vertical on the back wheel and kind of shuffle through. The handlebars sometimes have to be wriggled a bit also. Worked for me so far.
I carry a bit of light rope with me and one particular gate I tied the rope to the balance point of the bike and chucked the rope over the gate which has horizontal bars. Pass through normally and climb up the gate and then pull the bike up and over the top. Only needed to do this once but in emergency anything goes.

 

[KnittyNorah]

If a bike can only be 'wiggled' through by turning vertically, what about somebody with a tandem / twin child buggy. Surely the gates have to accomodate all forms of (reasonably) expected pedestrian access even if they are difficult for a bike. What about horses?

Or an electric mobility buggy - they are quite large, and can't exactly up-end them

Was just going to mention horse access, you beat me to it. In a worse case scenario, an ordinary bike can (often) be hoiked over, wiggled through or even have a wheel removed to enable access (supposing you are carrying a decent toolkit, that is), especially if you are in a group and so can work as a team to manhandle it. It's not so easy with a trike or one of those cross-country wheelchairs - I think they're called Trampers - and quite how does anyone remove a horse's legs to fit it through the gate?
Mind you this sort of thing is an issue on many bridleways in England and Wales when it is usually local councils fitting squeeze stiles and the like - using MY money to block MY access to paths which I am legally fully entitled to use.

 

[framediamond]

Thanks to all.

 

[rualexander]

I'm guessing that this is the sort of gate in question.
A real pain in the neck, but I suppose at least there is a gate.

 

[raleighnut]

I'm guessing that this is the sort of gate in question.
A real pain in the neck, but I suppose at least there is a gate.

View attachment 592378

known as a 'Kissing Gate'in England

 

[KnittyNorah]

Not yet come across a gated access that I can't get through, but have had a fence across a path on a couple of occasions. Thankfully trusty multi-tool often comes in useful - the wire cutter is better than most you'd buy as a specailised tool. Not sure what the land owner thinks when they see the hole, but then they shouldn't block access, should they.

Law is quite clear. You can remove an obstruction if you find one, but you cannot set out with the express intention of removing one. Fine line between the two.

Would do the same to gates too, if needed and possible, no matter who installed it. Multi-tool hacksaw is pretty decent.

It's a bit difficult to carry an angle grinder (for metal pipe or bar barriers) when riding a horse, and even harder to use it while holding onto said horse ... although most of the horses I've had would, and did, tolerate all sorts of things, an angle grinder within a few feet of their head would not be one of them!
Fences are not too difficult to overcome; the problem when on a horse is that a much wider gap is needed for the safety of the horse, than is needed for a bike. And my conscience would not permit me to leave such a large gap for stock to potentially escape through, so I need yet more time, tools and equipment to rig up some sort of reasonably-effective barrier which is also not a death-trap for young stock who are always going to be more curious and adventurous than the older ones. Of course it can be done - but it can seriously affect one's enjoyment of a day out. And sometimes it can't be done.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I take your point about stock escaping, but if the landowner illegally bars a public footpath with a stock fence, then sorry I have no qualms when it comes to removal of said obstruction, and it's NOT my job to reinstate a suitable alternative. If they don't want me to remove it, don't put it there to start with.

So are you honestly saying you don't care about the safety and the suffering of both innocent road users and stock, if they escape on to the public highway? I believe the law actually states that if you remove or cut through a locked gate or a fence, it must be reinstated as a barrier to stock, if stock are present. And that is quite right too, you don't get to present a danger to the public at large just because a selfish idiot - the landowner - has inconvenienced you by their illegal action. Two wrongs don't make a right ...

 

[oldwheels]

When I lived in Bowling there was a popular walk up the hill above through Auchentorlie Estate where
there was a gate to allow access. The estate decided to close this and put a chain and padlock on the gate. Not long after somebody with bolt cutters cut the chain. This was replaced with a heavier chain and then somebody with bigger bolt cutters came back again to do the same again. This continued for some time until the estate gave up. Nobody was causing any problems for the estate but they had a change of factor who was simply being nasty.
I had no problem with access through the main entrance as we had a dam on the estate I was entitled to inspect anytime and often did so as part of my job. If they tried to stop me m'learned friends would soon be after them.

 

[KnittyNorah]

When I've had need to remove an obstruction, it's been a long way from any public highway. Before accusing people, how about getting your facts straight. Where did I say I allowed any stock to get access to the highway? I don't think I did!
If the law states the barrier should be reinstated for stock, could you please provide a reference.

You made a blanket statement that you would dismantle a fence and leave it so, without any qualification about the location of the fence or gate, or that you would consider the safety of enclosed stock , or the danger they might present to users of a nearby highway, before doing so. That is all.

I said that I believe the law has a requirement that a dismantled fence needs to be made (temporarily) good again so as to still contain stock if that appears to be its purpose; I do not have a reference at hand (which is why I did not state it as fact) but I think it is in one of the more recent PROW modifications or appendices. I will check it and when I find it, will post it here.